This thread is yet another example of why I can't take /r/politics seriously.

A ton of comments claiming expertise about a subject they clearly have no idea about. The very terms Socialism and Communism have been so twisted in the American political sphere thanks to cold war propaganda.

Sure, use your straw arguments and semantics with extreme examples about the countries which "failed" without acknowledging the complex geopolitical reasons why they failed in the first place (hint, most so called communist of socialist countries who failed did so because of capitalistic countries involvements, case in point, Cuba - which is still doing damn good considering it's been embargoed by a neighboring superpower for 50+ years)

And sure, ignore all the countries which have great quality of life indicators with many, many socialist oriented programs (IE, Canada, Norway, etc.) by claiming it's not a "true socialist country.

So fucking what? Are you really trying to convince me that the U.S. model where getting sick can bankrupt you for life, is ACTUALLY better than these countries?

The comments are using two very different scales when speaking with this kind of hyperbole - Oh socialist countries completely suck because of (focus on bad aspects and ignoring good socialist programs), while capitalist countries rock - (let's ignored all the bad tho.)

The audience in this sub is behaving exactly as I expect as an outside observer. You have been so immersed in the Capitalist propaganda machine that has been grinding away for half a century that you can't even fathom that maybe your view of what socialism actually is might be skewed by your subjective experience?

No one in this thread should even be making any kind of claim regarding socialism as a whole unless you've actually read Das Kapital and unless you've actually compared the programs that you claim to know all about.

I sure as hell think Canada is Socialist leaning in regards to a number of social programs, and I absolutely believe it is better than American Health care. Do I think Socialism is the end all solution to everything? Of course not.

It's possible to think critically without having it be an absolute on either front, yet people here can't seem to be bothered with the fine details and instead will head off onto the extreme arguments they've swallowed whole by their parents - "all socialist countries are collapsing!" fuck that, that's not only BS, it's completely wrong.

Should we really start to look at Capitalist countries that have collapsed, and why they did? Should we look at the ridiculous amount of inequality that capitalist model drives? Should we look at the exploitation of third world countries that have allowed the "Growth" that capitalist countries claim to be so proud of?

The argument isn't as easy as Capitalism = good, Socialism = bad, yet the American media has been driving this point home for decades, and clearly it's working.

Here's a hint - it's not that easy. I have a masters in Sociology with a focus on historical economic models, and I can't even begin to count the number of times I didn't bother arguing with someone, because I can easily and clearly see they are just regurgitating the same B.S. arguments that they were told to support their worldview, because I would literally have to give that person 5-10 books to read before they even begin to understand the underlying and minute details which make their semantic arguments completely useless when actually debating policy.

This thread is that exact same thing - a whole lot of you have no business even claiming to know what you are talking about, but don't let that stop you from claiming your capitalist country is so amazing, while ignoring all the systemic and alarming failings that capitalism brings along with it.

If you are actually NOT in favor of any socialist programs - I guarantee you have no clue what you are talking about. If you think socialism is the end all - you also have no clue what you are talking about.

This topic is complex, intricate, and there is no clear answer, but that doesn't stop the media and the politicians form using the words to incite the masses to hate/love their position, and this is the net result. A debate which is an exercise in futility with both sides fucking missing the point.