but without debt, you'd have to buy a car or house straight up, and credit cards wouldn't exist. Cars and land have value, fair or not.

yeah cars and land do have value, why does that mean we need credit cards, and a debt system, IF we didnt have credit cards and loans and similar shit, then we wouldn't have debt to pay, just full price tags...... thats like the whole point, pay what u really owe, what ur saying is debt is important because if you owe debt on something with value, u need to pay it off, right i agree but, if debt wasnt a "a crucial part of a modern economy" then u WOULDNT have to pay off the debt, because again it would exist and if u have the money for a car u have it or u DONT, no debt owed, for real what are you saying? debt is good and important because u have to pay it because you owe it, but if there was no debt then there would be nothing to pay, u wouldn't owe anything, because u either bought or you didnt because you dont have the money at the moment, its a loop it doesn't make sense, u cant use the reason "debt" for why "debt" is important, thats like a definition of a word use the word its defining in the definition , ur not saying anything.

ur saying u cant, and we shouldnt forgive debt on a "car or land" but why tho, whole the point is we are questioning idea of debt, u cant just use debt as ur defense of debt, debt is good because of debt? its like questioning the existence of god, u cant say: ask god and believe in his answer, god real because of god, a loop of arbitrary logic.