Hey if you want me to be logically consistent then you need to be as well. I stated I believe bicyclists should have to wear retro reflective gear, as most road workers are required to. It helps for increased visibility regardless if it's light or dark. It is not "overkill". They're super cheap for vests. You called my perception unscientific, which is invalid because there is no such thing as a scientific or unscientific perception. There is scientific accounts of perception, not scientific perceptions. Saying their our roads too doesn't mean anything if you a majority of bicyclists ride like shit and disregard laws, stop refuting it by saying that cars do too, that is not a good refute. Like not once did you say anything productive, it was all "that's overkill, cars break the law", making excuses like you're all self righteous. You may be the best bicyclist in the world, but most bicyclists seen by the traveling are shitty bicyclists and that's why most people hate them. I don't know why you're trying to grill me for saying "Hey I would respect bicyclists more if the majority of them followed the rules that cars follow". Like how hard is that? That's all I want bicyclists to realize.