(Capitalists) If we are to critically analyse socialism, we should at least have the honesty and decency to define socialism as collective ownership and democratic control of the 'means of' production, rather than conflating it with all statism.

But that will not make socialists stop strawmanning capitalism and define it in their own weird and unsuitable way. Dig deep enough into the socialist's identity, and you're more likely than not to find a very personal reason for hatred of capitalism. Perhaps this person's family did not flourish under capitalism. Perhaps they are gay or a minority or otherwise marginalised and project the agency doing the marginalizing on to capitalism. Perhaps they simply were bullied by a rich kid growing up. None of these things can be reasoned away. Outside of academics (who resent capitalism for their own reasons) good luck finding a communist who has done especially well under capitalism. The reason why capitalism is bad, when you peel enough layers away, is usually "because it hurt me." No syllogism, no evidence, no argument will ever undo that.

This argument could be pallets swapped for capitalists. Let me try:

But that will not make Capitalists stop strawmanning socialism and define it in their own weird and unsuitable way. Dig deep enough into the capitalist's identity, and you're more likely than not to find a very personal reason for hatred of socialism. Perhaps this person's family did not flourish under Socialism. Perhaps they are a Venezuealan. Perhaps they simply were bullied by a Bernie bro growing up. None of these things can be reasoned away. Outside of academics (who resent socialism for their own reasons) good luck finding a capitalist who has done especially well under socialism. The reason why socialism is bad, when you peel enough layers away, is usually "because it hurt me." No syllogism, no evidence, no argument will ever undo that.

I think you are really over thinking this. Sometimes it boils down to: "I think this system is better in the long run" address arguments on their merit, not on trying to read the other side's minds

/r/CapitalismVSocialism Thread Parent