CMV: Jews are entitled to the land of Israel

So Jews can occupy Israel, but nobody ever is entitled to any land? No people need to be in any land? Israel should have land in a political but not moral view?

Think of it this way: for the moral claim to even be discussed, you already need political strength. For example, the Kurds have difficulty securing their claimed land and nobody really cares that much because they don't have political capital to speak of. There are some obscure ethnic groups you won't even hear about at all your entire life. Maybe it's too cynical, but to me morality only exists if there is a source to enforce it. Morality is defined by humans, and if there are no humans around to argue for a specific brand of morality, that system might as well not exist. I'm aware that this view might be controversial, especially if you are religious and believe morality to be absolute.

It might seem counter-intuitive, but the fact that we are currently discussing Israel's claim at all is good news for them, it means that the Israelis have strength and allies and enough influence to open the topic and make it relevant.

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that bloodshed that is caused by emotional decisions should be avoided. I thank you for the !delta because it seems that you now understand this. To me, the best leader is the one who makes the street-smart choices, not those that are popular on the surface but not helpful in the long term.

That's not how it works on a country scale. I'm not arguing that people are better from rarity. I'm saying, if Muslim countries have so much space, why can't they give this little piece for Jews?

Ok, my bad, I misunderstood. I think here the difficulty is where to draw the line, because then you would also have to give land to plenty of people who want it, from the Ahmadis to the Ossetians, to a multitude of disparate groups. If I were the King of Islam (lol) I would no doubt leave Israel alone and move on to other things but it's not my call.

There is also one other aspect you have not considered. It's my personal opinion, but a lot of the anti-Semitism is actually a tool for the leaders of these countries to stay in power: it has a propaganda aspect because they cynically use Jews as a scapegoat. If their population sees their leader agree with Israel, they might see them as weak. That's why none of the Muslim chiefs wants to make the first move towards peace. So essentially the Muslims also have a strategic use in attacking Israel, it is a pretext to strengthen themselves and forge bonds. They are also opposing America indirectly. SO it's unfair and terrible but not necessarily totally stupid from a strategic POV.

/r/changemyview Thread Parent