CMV: Muslim immigrants are destroying every society that takes them in large numbers

Here's an example from a stats class:

  1. With all the gang killings and domestic despuits ending with gun fire, do you think there should be legislation passed to hinder gun ownership? (6 agreed; 4 disagreed)

  2. The second ammendment guarantees citizens the right to bear arms, should this right be comprimised by legislation in the twentyfirst century? (1 Yes; 9 No)

Hypothetical examples for the case we're talking about :

  1. Do you believe people who have doubts and misgivings about their faith should be killed?

  2. Do you believe individuals who abandon Islam for a life of sin should be killed

  3. Do you believe those who abandon Christianity should be killed?

  4. Do you think apostates of any faith should be killed?

_ People in the Middle East will give different answers for all of these. A simple yes or no would skew the answers which is something a lot of surveys take advantage of.

And for your second point:

Treason is punished pretty much the same all over the world. So I don't know what kind of reaction you hope for when they view apostasy in this light. You would have argue to them that an apostate hasn't betrayed their community and that they're the same person; the only thing that's changed is that they no longer believe in a higher power.

As for why they view it as a betrayal is that they "knew" the right path, the straight and narrow, but gave it up for life dedicated to worldly possessions, to money, to lust, to pride. They believe you gave up, and abandoned them, on the struggle to stay righteous.

The thing is this not based on Islam and, like I mentioned earlier, there is a divide between culture and religion.

In the Quran it says:

They wish that you reject faith as they have done, so that you all become the same. So take not protectors/friends from them till they emigrate in the way of God. But if they turn away, seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither protectors/friends from them nor helpers. (4:89)

_ This is a common verse that's thrown around to support killing apostates but the next line says

Except those who join a group between you and whom there is a (peace-) treaty or those who approach you with their hearts restraining them from fighting you or fighting their own people. Had God willed he would have given them power over you and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you but give you (guarantees of) peace, then God has opened no way for you against them.

_ So basically if they haven't waged war against you then you go nothing on them.

Now they can say that they have waged war but that's as true as me saying HM Queen Elizabeth is personally trying to steal my computer. The two ideas sound just as crazy too.

What we in the west have to do when receiving the back-asswards arabs is to educate them, primarily their children so they abandon the shit bits of their culture (and I mean culture).

I love to argue man so I bothered to learn about the more controversial topics in the world to be more prepared to argue both ways.

/r/changemyview Thread Parent