Do you think the concept of "masculinity" is important?

Forget Saudi Arabia. A guy went on a shooting spree last year targeting mostly women (he had a number of other issues, and they're significant, but his primary motive seemed to be misogyny). Women are far more likely to suffer stalking, sexual abuse, and assault (though the LGBTQ community has it even worse). Women are literally attacked and killed for rejecting advances. That is not hyperbole. This is something that is prevalent enough that it's statistically notable. You can look up any of these things from reputable sources with a simple google search.

So would you call the stereotype that all Asians are high achieving students good at math a good thing for them? It is undeniably a prejudice, and it undeniably has some positive connotations (though like any stereotype it actually dehumanizes the target). Asian students suddenly have a much higher level of undue pressure to succeed, and those who don't focus on academics or STEM are often overlooked by college admissions boards; they have to be exceptional to seem normal. And this perceived notion of academic exceptionalism also makes non Asian peers exclude them socially. And at the same time the non Asians appear not as good in comparison, when they might themselves be exceptional. That is an undeniably positive bias towards Asians that has undeniably negative effects, and for pretty much everyone involved. All stereotypes and generalizations about a group of people like this are harmful. It doesn't have to be a negative one.

What about the stereotype, the gender role (coming back to the main topic here) that men should support the family and be professionals? Now obviously I expect you agree with this sentiment based on your statements and that's neither here nor there, but frankly there are men out there who don't want to do this. They want to be a house-husband or they want to do some passion career that doesn't pay as much as the wife. You might argue that it's emasculating, but for them they're just doing what they prefer and what works for them. And yet society looks down on them for doing so. Not to mention the fact that a big part of the stigma is precisely that it's emasculating and that it's doing something a woman is expected to do. You can argue that it's simply because they stepped out of the norm (and I would still find that problematic in and of itself), but couldn't it be argued that at least part of the problem is that in our capitalist and professional oriented society staying at home is often viewed as lower status, and furthermore could it not be extended that part of that is because it is traditionally female work. Females have been traditionally subservient to males in our society for centuries, and those roles have stigmas, even if the traditional sexes aren't the ones doing them. And it works the other away around as well for women entering the workforce, though admittedly this is much better than it used to be in a lot of ways (but a LOT of work still needs to be done). Really a lot of traditionally positive qualities of women like gentleness and grace are still undeniably boxes they're packed away in without any say, and that generally discount individual personality, individual humanity. Men have the same problem. Look at the masculine ideal of stoicism and not showing emotions. I'm fucking tired of that concept and don't want to be judged negatively because I don't conform to a quality that I don't even find attractive and don't want to conform to, and shouldn't have to conform to. These perceptions of people matter and they affect people's actions and decisions, consciously and otherwise,, and it's all based in such silly trivialities as gender and nationality and race and religion and sexuality and so on, which are all things that people have no control over and most of which have no biological influence.

As for equating women's experiences with blacks experiences, no of course I'm not going to be foolish enough to compare women's struggles with the horrors of chattel slavery, but for a long time women had drastically fewer legal rights than men... a woman was certainly subservient to the husband and father and brother and pastor, and a lot of those old beliefs aren't fully gone.

Just because I'm capable of noticing such trends and making note of them and feeling indignant I'm a white knight? Because I stand up for something I consider just I'm "sacrificing [my] dignity to be [a] whipping [boy] for women who hate [my] existence? Dude, I don't have plenty of dignity; I just don't get it from some masculine ideal. I get it from things that matter to me personally. I'm acting like some whipping boy? I'm well aware of my own rights and standards, and I won't let anyone take them away from me and I won't do or say something I think crosses a line of what I- and no one else- personally thinks is reasonable. I do this for a bunch of women who don't appreciate me, who hate me? This might not be a surprise to you, but I have plenty of female friends, some of whom I'm quite close to, several of whom would identify as Feminists. I didn't get this rhetoric or ideology from them; I made my own observations and did my own research. But I can show that I'm capable of having a decent relationship with a woman based on mutual respect and friendship, including from those who identify as Feminists. Please don't presume to know about mine or anyone else's beliefs or experiences or relationships with women based on the simple fact that they see a problem and want it to be fixed. That's patently unfair. Would you question the dignity or motives of a white person who fought for black rights, about a straight person who fought for LGBTQ rights, about a rich guy who fought for the rights and well-being of the poor, about a physically typical person who fought for those with disabilities? Sure, you could argue that they might be ignorant about some of the things you think are important to their movement due to lack of experience, but in a vacuum you shouldn't have any eed to question their character or intent. If you would anyway, then there's an entirely deeper problem.

Anyway, I'm sorry, but I'm done. I'm exhausted (been up too long) and should get some sleep. Honestly I'm also a bit annoyed at the present circumstances, and I also feel like there's nothing more I would need to say anyway; it's already all been said, and it's up to you how you react to it. If you or Ignition or anyone else wants to respond to stuff I'll probably read it later, but I doubt I'll reply. Hope you fare well.

/r/AskMen Thread Parent