Not fully MGTOW but interested in both parties. I can see the falter on both sides. This big internet war is all about balance. On this side's hand I can admit that I've been in wonderful relationships that have been ruined simply by me not loving myself and improving myself, I struggle with a strange fear of success thing that gets in the way of happiness just before I'm about to achieve it. On the other hand my relationships haven't been perfect, I've had girls use my nurturing nature to their advantage, do nothing but complain about their ex and have me basically "audition" for their affection, have had a girl I've loved my whole life hook up with a best friend of mine and they both literally laughed when I got upset and by the end of it for some reason I was apologizing to them (still can't understand why I'm like this). MGTOW can seem like a pity party, but at the same time the nature of human beings can seem pretty undoubtedly harsh, to the point that "competing" is an inevitability. To be honest my suicidal thoughts don't come from my own "depression" or unwillingness to get better, it comes from the cold-harsh reality of human nature, the fact that I'm written off by people if I'm not strong enough and they will literally get together and mock my calamity. Why play your role and provide for a society when the reward is more degenerate than avoiding playing the role altogether, sure your self-improvement will have women pining, but anytime I've been in that position (and I have FYI), the woman that I'm with is literally on Instagram laughing at other men's attempts with me calling them "creepy." I'm not here to complain guys, I'm just here to say that I'm a man that has seen both sides of the coin, being the loser and the winner, and resulting mindset is not pretty. What we need nowadays more than ever is less brilliance, less winning, less strength, and more kindness.