[Discussion] I no longer wish to use positive reinforcement

Some amount of correction isn’t necessarily bad. Thing with positive only is that you need to be very good at it and while it is undeniably fastest way to train a new behavior, it is damn hard to reinforce unwanted behavior away.

Positive reinforcement is not a method, it is a term that describes reinforcing a behaviour by rewarding it and you use it wether you want it or not. When you give the dog attention, food take them out to walk, let them do anything fun, their brain is trying to figure out what made this good thing happen. Positive reinforcement only is a method.

Sadly it’s often taught very poorly. Zak George is not a good example, he’s a dog food salesman ffs.

Problem with punishment is that some dogs are more sensitive to it than others. If you don’t scale the correction right, you either scare the dog or it doesn’t have any effect. Another, huge problem is, that giving corrcetions, even well proportioned and right timed, shuts down tendency to try new behaviours. So while it feels like yea my dog is not misbehaving and this works, you apply te stick to other problems and one day want to teach a dog new trick and it won’t dare to do anything.

R+ aims to modify the thought process in dogs mind to teach that 1) the owner is the source of good things 2) my behaviour can get me the good things. Usually when people say this is bullshit and doesn’t work, they’ve failed to achieve no. 1 and are nowhere near no.2.

Here’s what zak george doesn’t tell you: to become source of good things, you need to limit the access to other sources of good things. You need to go behind dogs back and tell people not to roughhouse with the pup, only let the puppy meet dogs that are calm and only sniff and move on in leash. But when the puppy does something you want, suddenly they can go play off leash with the dog. If the dog learns they can just go and get things for themselves, your value decreases. It can be very hard especially if you have a dog that enjoys looking at things.

I really recommend looking at Michael Ellis’ videos on youtube. They’re under Leerburg channel. Methods are mainly positive but they do use correction and more importantly when to use correction.

Lastly ”throwing water” is euphemism for peeing in Finnish. Please don’t throw water on the dog.

/r/dogs Thread