Does anyone have any stories of PovertyFIRE?

I like the name povertyfire - lol. Anyway, I started late in life on the FIRE journey so to some extent regular FIRE was not really an option without making some serious alterations to my work/life balance which in turn would almost certainly end up badly.

I'm not in the states, so my thoughts on the subject might not be directly useable for you, but may be for other europeans.

Obviously the first thing you can do to attain FIRE is make more money. However when that it optimised you should certainly look into SPENDING less money as well. It's "free" money when you save it. r/minimalism and r/simpleliving helped me immensely. I was already into simple living prior to looking into FIRE, mainly because I easily identified some unhealthy hoarder tendencies in my near family, and really did not want to repeat those. (no one needs 400 pounds of Christmas ornaments). Prior to doing the FIRE quest I was really much into hardcore spending and materialism, while it was probably good for me to "try" those things, it certainly became apparent (after too many years) that the only things that really mattered (for me) was family, travel and a few hobbies/social networks that I have been spending some time on. Work in itself really did very little positive for me. My line of business is well paid but also high stress, low morals, and just generally just leaves you with a feeling of wasting your time.

I am lucky in the sense that I have a few "side gig" hobbies, while they would never be big enough to sustain my old lifestyle, they could be the "barista" component in a future cleaner lifestyle.

Currently, as I am working toward leanfire, I am more or less "required" to live in a VHCOL area. That's where the work is at, however, I plan on re-sizing and optimising the housing situation as things progress. We have downsized twice, already (our first move had over 100 moving boxes, we are down to less than 35 on our last move - target is 20).

We also ditched cars, which in a financial context is one of my best moves. Taxes are very high here, and owning two modern cars, ran us over 2000 usd per month. Now we take the subway/trains and the cost is like 100 but a month for the family. Travel times are more or less the same. Of course, the availability of public transport is not a given if you go to a LCOL area, but our plan is to end up at the very edge of the HCOL area in a very very small apartment. That would result in no need for cars and with less work, the extended travel times would be fine. I currently spend 20 minutes each direction for work. Compared to when I lived in the states (LA and LV) this is already pure luxury.

Where I live, income taxes are absurd, so my leanfire path has been modified to match the current tax framework. First of all, certain pension contributions are tax free up to a certain level per year, so I have been putting a lot of money into retirement plans in the last 2 years. This results in the adverse effect that I am currently putting more aside for later retirement (pension plans vest at age 69 here) than I am for early retirement. This is of course due to the tax construct. To counter this effect I have altered my work situation in a few ways. I do freelance work, and am now doing this thru an LLC. This means that I will be able to "hold" income in the company and pay it out as salary at a later point in time. The tax advantage is pretty big as marginal income tax here is 56%. I will have to pay corporate taxes however, but the money "left" in the LLC can be invested and should after 2-3 years Make up for the corporate taxes. The downside with this model is obviously that I am tax liable when I pay out salary from the LLC. The tax system here is progressive, so the first roughly 10k per adult per year, is tax free. Then it progresses, until it caps in the high 50's %. So by actively choosing to be "poor" I can realistically end up paying very little taxes. This of course requires that I can live on this low amount.

As for healthcare, I am very fortunate. I actually do get that *free* for my 56% income tax. Ha. Anyway, it runs perpetual and only caveat is that I retain my residency in the country. Easy enough to do. The quality of the healthcare system is "just alright" it's certainly not luxurious or advanced, but they will keep me alive so I can pay more taxes. Medicine is subsidised, if you have very expensive medicine needs. Realistically, your medicine expenses caps out at like 100 bucks per month.

Government pensions are also in the mix here. All citizens receive government pension that starts at around 1000 USD per month when you reach age 69. It is pre-tax. There are several "add-ons" to this which can bring it up to around 2k a month, most of these additional payments are dependant on other pension income and medical requirements etc. The case could be made that you are actually better off not doing any savings, if you can live off 2k a month pre-tax. But again, there are possibilities of choosing when the pension funds vest and how they are paid out, so it's not really a dealbreaker for me personally.

My biggest concern right now is Realestate. I have previously owned a few properties and sold them off a few years ago. The market is really really hot here (1BR apartments selling for 800k euro+ in some areas). The plan right now is to hold back and keep renting until the market crashes again, and then buy a small 2BR in the outskirts. This has several potential pitfalls. Main one being that even though I will be able to leanfire in the near future (maybe 5 years) the addition of Realestate would make it necessary to go barista/lean fire. I .e. work a few months a year to cover the costs. The upside is obviously sitting near-rent free before age 69.

The second element of not going 100% FIRE is retaining the capability of paying into retirement/pension plans. 1 months of work a year would facilitate reaching the maximum tax free payment into the existing retirement plans. I 100% want to keep doing that. Of course in that sense it's not "real" FIRE, but it's close enough for me.

Hope some of the above thoughts are usable in their form.

OP, what's your thoughts on healthcare? Will you stay in the states?

/r/leanfire Thread