Forgetting the whole "It cant be done" idea, does anyone have any suggestions as to how it could be done?

You make two assumptions that I think are important to highlight because they are critical to understand the obstacles we face and, by extension, how we can progress.

1: Dark Souls exists in a state of irreducible complexity.

According to your statement Dark Soul has one state: "1.Walking and 2.Fighting." This is illogical as it goes completely against the days of evidence broadcast on the stream AND the implications of that conclusion make fundamentally no sense.

To suggest Dark Souls exists in one state of fighting and walking is to suggest that at all times the player is moving while fighting. Hours of dropping in and out of the pool room, rolling up and down the stairs and being stuck in corners do not corroborate this statement; this evidence shows only the "walking" or movement side of your purposed ONE STATE and I assume you are not suggest that constant mace bashing Walls fulfills the Fighting component of this state.

Rather it is more logical to say that Dark Souls Crowdplay so far in has existed in two significant states: NAVIGATION & COMBAT. The stream has spend HOURS AT NAVIGATION & only SECONDS AT COMBAT.

It would be also be correct to subject that COMBAT is composed of two key components: MOVEMENT & FIGHTING. The state of COMBAT then is the true definition of the one state you propose. But to suggest this means that all Dark Souls is comprised of Combat which is blatantly untrue.

The Twitch Crowdplay have demonstrated their ability to succeed in their COMBAT ENCOUNTERS with reasonable and (at times) exceptional play. If COMBAT was the primary state that defines Dark Souls, we would not still be in the tutorial section. It mainly in the crowdplay's failure to properly address the latter state—NAVIGATION—that prevents us from PROGRESS.

Thus you proposed ONE STATE of Dark Souls is neither the obstacle against at progress nor a valid reason that a DEMOANA system can not be implemented.

As to whether the DEMOANA addresses the Stream's very real and apparent need in NAVIGATION, you very clearly make the concession outright:

DS] I actually agree that moving from place to place would be a lot easier if the democracy system was in place, that goes without saying obviously.

You try to rectify this statement by presenting a conclusion as evidence. That the Terrain is too complex and involves too many Hazards & Encounters to allow the DEMOANA system to be effective.

Again this is an illogical assessment which is so filled in assumptions that they must be dismantled in three parts: A) The Terrain of Dark Souls it too complex: The Terrain of Dark Souls is, by the nature of its level design, Static. That means, no matter how many times we leave or return to an area, the Terrain of the level will stay the same. The Pool and Ladder will always be in the same place yesterday as a month from now. By your concession, DemoAna's easier NAVIGATION equates to easier progress through the Terrain.

B) We cannot properly response to Hazards present in Terrain: And what defines Hazards in Terrain? The Cliffs or Traps or Lava? These are all static elements in the Terrain, just because a Hazard exists in the Terrain does not mean we cannot NAVIGATE around it. And you concession the DEMOANA system's easier NAVIGATION should aid rather than detract from our PROGRESS past Hazards in the Terrain.

C) Encounters within the Terrain disrupt us from succeeding with the DEMOANA system: A number of assumption dovetail into this idea. First: Encounters are nothing more than the state of game shifting more from NAVIGATION to COMBAT. As demonstrated in our battles with Hollows in the tutorial level, COMBAT is not an issue for us. While Encounters may rise in difficulty, they will not change substantially. Furthermore the Encounters are not randomly spawned but emerge at specific subsections of the level design; this can be exploited by better NAVIGATION.

Furthermore each Encounter type follows a particular pattern which can and will be exploited by the crowdplay. The real-time element of these things give rise to your two primary concerns: i. The DEMOCRACY system will not be responsive enough to address pertinent obstacles or challenges ii. The DEMOANA system will not be able to shift between these two states efficiently enough for crowdplay to adopt the better tactic.

Fortunately both concerns are addressed by your central and fatal assumption.

2: The DemoAna system will adhere to the Pokemon style of game play. The DemoAna system in Pokemon offers us a model for success that can be adapted to the needs of Dark Souls. This does not mean that the DemoAna systems needs to adhere directly to the structure present in Pokemon. Already we have unique facets of our own stream that is readily exploitable for the successful implementation of a DEMOANA system. a) All inputs given in our current system, suffer from a significant delay that ranges from 30 seconds to 2 minutes before being rendered in the game. This means the actions can be tallied in 15 to 30 second intervals and place on a queue that will allow for continuous motion. b) The level design of Dark Souls is unchanging Hazards do not move, Encounters stay in the same relative vicinity and Boss Fights are nearly always preceded by the Fog Gate. We will always have ample space and time to shift gears in the DemoAna system. We can also devise pattern-specific solutions, such as our Pool Room escape, that can more easily be implemented in Demo than Ana.

Finally, I will address two central points in your Conclusion that undermine your argument. FIRST:

There are near infinite possibilities of what direction you can move in DarkSouls.

This is not an obstacle to the DemoAna System, this is a boon! We have near infinite directions of movement or NAVIGATION but the level design has very specific and finite limitations of distance, encounters and hazards. A proper DemoAna allows us to seek out and experiment with our near endless NAVIGATION to devise simple action patterns to solve Dark Souls's complex but ultimately limited level design. Nearly infinite potential for movement maximizes the benefits the DemoAna system.

LASTLY:

Democracy worked in Pokemon and wouldn't work to the same positive effect in dark souls because s much Merely concluding that DemoAna system wouldn't work as well in one situation as it does in another is not a sound argument against adopting that system (and even this conclusion was not ineffectually carried out). Just because the DemoAna system might not benefit Dark Souls as much as Pokemon does not mean there aren't sustainable benefits to gain. For your argument to be logical reason to not adopt the DemoAna system, you must show how the system would either detract from people's ability to play Dark Souls which would make implementation unreasonable or, at the very least, show how any benefits gained by the DemoAna system would be so incredible minor as to render implementation ineffectual. Neither of which you have done.

I rest my case. Now lets implement the Goddamn DemoAna system already!

/r/twitchplaysdark Thread Parent