(PART 1)
you may have such a strong bias against my position that you have yet to even begin to think outside the box and see things from my perspective.
Why do you presume that? I am not a very biased individual. I have no agenda here besides to express my personal opinions and assessments. I would say I have been fairly open minded and considerate of where you are coming from, so if we disagree, it is more likely that I just hold a different opinion rather than I am 'biased.'
In fact, I don't know about you, but I would even say I am enjoying this conversation.
This is fair of you to admit, but now you should have a clear understanding of where I'm coming from.
So, did she tell you specifically that you had a chance? It sounds to me like she said she would like to know you better before deciding to date you. So she got to know you better, and decided she did not want to date you. I don't see where she misled you. Unless she specifically said she would date you after a certain period of time, her actions are in accordance with what she said. The only fault I would attribute to her is from the sounds of it, she could have been more forthright about her decision to not date you when she became aware of it. But I also think you are holding the fact that she decided not to date you against her because you put time and effort into seeing if something more will happen.
But that was the agreement, was it not? "Let's get to know each other and then see." So you willingly agreed to put in time and effort for the chance of this becoming more, knowing that there would be a chance it would not. I can be sympathetic about your rejection, and your frustration about wasted effort, because we've all been there, but I would still disagree that this girl led you on.
Sometimes, frustation is something you aim at yourself. I just missed an important deadline for something. I could be angry that I was only given 1 week to do it. But you know what? I didn't even start until 2 days before it was due. So I am frustrated at myself for procrastinating.
just how rare it is to meet women who understand that respect is earned today.
I have found that what you project is what you attract. If you find that most of the women you meet are spoiled, and lack respect, the likelihood is that it's your behavior that is attracting them. And I don't mean you are disrespectful yourself, or that you are doing it deliberately. But something about how you interact and socialize draws these people to you. Once again, it goes back to learning to truly read people, understand complex human behavior, and being self-aware.
What you just said to me sounds so similar to the standard, "Most men are assholes," saying. In my experience, 30% of men are assholes but 70% of men are not. So if these women think most men are assholes, it's because they have somehow deliberately or accidentally limited themselves to that 30%. In fact, I know of a specific case. She was fucked up by a previous relationship and was angry and hurt and wanted to essentially pay it forward. So any guy who actually showed an interest in her, she would screw over just like she got screwed over becaue she could, and then would just be left with guys who aren't that interested in her. Thus, "most men are assholes." Just one example. She wasn't even aware of what she was doing.
Maybe the social norms they are being indoctrinated to believe are reality are actually stunting them emotionally and as a result, women don't find them attractive.
Well again, I disagree how much of it is indoctrination and how much they wind up believing those things due to their own lack of understanding of human behavior. I also wouldn't necessarily attribute them to being unattractive.
I know this is where we will disagree, but I don't think treating women with respect or being nice are unattractive traits. But awkwardness? Weirdness? Disregard for social norms? That is. And that might trump all of your niceness. Leaving you desperate. And a nice DESPERATE man has a target painted on his back. Just like the meek quiet woman who never got asked out, they're going to get taken advantage of because they so depserately want something to work out, but don't have the ability to grasp when they're being screwed over.
I don't know if these men simply misinterpret what it means by treat women with respect (as in, don't be shitty to women simply for being women), or that they, in their desperation, take the treating women with respect to an extreme in their way of trying to troubleshoot why they are not getting companionship, but that is what I've observed to be happening.
It's almost like they operate based entirely on a worldview that has been shoved down their throats since they were toddlers.
Nah, Occam's Razor. Is it more likely that they've been brainwashed by some mythical entity for some reason, despite plenty of influences that exist in both media and culture that could have influenced them otherwise, even if they are not the majority...or is it more likely that they are simply reflexively responding and don't get human behavior? See girl. Want girl. Be nice to girl (mom said). Girl not respond. WANT GIRL. TRY HARDER. Girl really doesn't respond. TRY EVEN HARDER. MUST GET GIRL. EVENTUALLY GIRL WILL CAVE. Girl didn't cave. WHY? GIRLS DUMB.
I mean, I would say the prevailing culture does tell men to respect women (in the sense of don't be shitty to women) and to be nice to women if you want a date, but I have never seen any widespread belief system telling men to persist at a woman and that eventually she will love you. Quite the opposite. "Plenty of fish in the sea" is a common idiom for this exact reason. It's as common as "be nice." So logical conclusion is 1) be nice, 2) if it doesn't work, find other fish.
The modulator here isn't what they've been told - what they've been told only covers how they approach women in the first place. It's the desperation that makes them persist women despite logic, and despite other things they've been told.
Maybe they're taught to hate themselves from a very young age, to repress their own wants needs and desires, and put everyone else's wishes before their own, and so when someone ends up not liking them despite everything they do to appease them, it results in devastation.
I think so too. I think where we differ is you believe that this is due to indoctrination whereas I believe it's a result of failing to comprehend human behavior, leading to loneliness, leading to desperation, leading to getting taken advantage of.
Additionally, if this was an indoctrination aimed at men, it does not explain the many women who are in the same boat. How did they wind up that way?
It's almost like maybe not a whole lot of women are capable of being emotionally available these days... he realizes that maybe it isn't worth it to become attached.
I think it's more so they wind up for whatever reason going after a woman that isn't emotionally available, get burned, and decide it's not worth it to be attached because of the fear of being burned like that again. Completely understandable. But still a disservice to themselves because they are missing out due to fear.
Remember the girl I mentioned earlier? Fucked around with men because she got screwed over and feared it happening again. She's not happy in her current state. Neither are the men who decide it's not worth it to become attached to avoid being burned. Both are learning the wrong lesson from their experience, which should be "how did this happen?" and most of the time the answer is, "I did not stand up for myself on time," not "Women are unattached bitches, not worth it" or "Men are assholes, not worth it."