GNOME: More Memory, More Problems

fat-lobyte posted:

What do you even mean with "broke the GNOME desktop"?

I mean way back in the dark ages, when Gnome 2.xx was still a viable desktop and Gnome 3.0\GnomeShell just beginning rather than changing the versioning of the code to indicate a fork or a branching Poettering and his merry band simply updated the code and left it versioned the same. So overnight code which would have worked just fine in Gnome 2.xx would break in that desktop and updates or even maintenance became nearly impossible because there was no way to determine what was for what desktop. Without clear branching it was Gnome 3.0\GnomeShell or the highway.

We're talking about stuff from nearly a decade ago, messages posted in forums and news sites and so on so I may have some details incorrect. All I know is even on LTS distros trying to maintain a Gnome 2.x desktop became increasingly impossible because of this sudden introduction of dependency hell where you could never be sure if an update would break something due to a bit of code not intended for Gnome 2.xx being in the update. This was beyond distros. I went distro hopping all over the place trying to find one that didn't break on updates while still keeping my desktop.

Eventually I broke. I gave KDE another chance and confirmed that I still hated it and felt uncomfortable on that desktop. It may work great for some but it's not for me. I tried XFCE for a bit so I could keep my applications but was frustrated that everything "felt" wrong, even on themed versions which supposedly replicated the look and feel of Gnome 2. This was just as bad in LXDE when I tried it. Eventually I even went back to Windows for a brief period only to discover I hated it too, even when I set everything back the way I liked it manually or when I tried out shell replacements like LiteStep or ObjectBar or the ObjectDesktop. Somewhere in this period the Mate project was started and released and I began distro hopping to find the best one of these before settling on Ubuntu-Mate for the most part.

When I say it broke the desktop that's what I mean. The old desktop stopped being manageable even by distros. Ubuntu's response was to build Unity. Other distros made XFCE their new desktop.

Like I said, I first began using and learning how to use Linux in 1997. I don't know how long you've been around but this whole thing was a big deal at the time. I don't think we've really recovered from it yet and it's been years since then now.

fat-lobyte posted:

Being civil. That's how I expect them to react.

You act as though people didn't try! You're seeing the end stage of years of attempts to be reasonable and being poked at, mocked, told that you were doing it wrong and should never have been allowed to have had your desktop working for you as long as you did. Bug reports were closed with wontfix, bug reports were ignored. Civility is a two way street.

fat-lobyte posted:

You know that you can disagree with people without being a dick, right?

Do you?

If everywhere you go you smell shit, after a while you need to stop making excuses and check your shoes, brush your teeth, see if a new deodorant is in order, etc.

fat-lobyte posted:

I don't believe this whole narrative of being "forced" to adapt SystemD or being "forced" to adapt PulseAudio or being forced to adapt literally any piece of software. It makes no earthly sense.

What does SystemD or PulseAudio have to with Gnome? Those are all three very separate projects. Or at least they're supposed to be...

fat-lobyte posted:

I've already mentioned the removal and constant breaking of Gnome-fallback or Gnome Classic.

What do you even mean? I just logged in to a GNOME Classic session, so how can it have been removed?

Only because of the outcry when Poettering and company announced they were removing Gnome Classic---and even then when they relented in the aftermath of that outcry Cinnamon Desktop was born from forked code, which shows you how much Poettering and Company's word was trusted on this matter by that point.

Even so, the Gnome Classic Session you mention is always being posted about having broken extensions every update which break it.

fat-lobyte posted:

If they start personal attacks on developers, then yes, users are very much the problem.

I swear this is so familiar... Users are dead, users don't have to be your audience, right?

Are you sure you're not Poettering's alt account?

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