God, beauty, love, moral goodness. Four concepts that stand together. I don't believe we can logically do away with one without doing away with the other three.

People do value divinity.

I said we share some values, not all.

Saying people do value "x" is not a justification for it.

That wasn't what I said. I said the justification comes from the arguments, usually based on other shared values. You and I don't both value "divinity," but we probably share common values on the dignity of human life, that one shouldn't harm others, etc.

But we don't have evidence for beauty or morality

Because beauty and morality exist only in our minds. The claims are normative--what we should do, what we should value. Claims about God are about an agent out there--one that is claimed to have created the world (in only six days, by some), is claimed to answer prayers, etc. These are claims of a very different nature.

I think there are respectable schools of Zen Buddhism that deny rationality.

I was speaking in general, and I acknowledge there are always outliers. Surely someone who rejected rationality wouldn't be so hypocritical as to use the fruits of rationality, such as a computer and all the underlying network protocols that allow the Internet to work so well. If we met such a person, we would know that their rejection of rationality was nothing more than a pose. So while I acknowledge that there may be religious ascetics chanting in a cave or hermitage somewhere right now, they are in a very small minority.

I believe a stoic philosophy doesn't value happiness

Possibly, but what from what I've read they claimed that they were achieving greater happiness by forgoing what others mistakenly chase after. Same for the cynics like Diogenes of Sinope. In any case, I am aware that there are outliers. You are welcome to reject anything you like.

/r/DebateReligion Thread Parent