Holy Sh*t, russia is taking down US

Capitalism leaves behind plenty of dead bodies as well. Oh that's so cute of you. Just because you aren't a victim of capitalism or don't see the victims of it everyday doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Didn't the United States just get out of like a 20 yr war that it lied itself into? What about all those rare metals mined to get your cell phone? Weren't people literally jumping off the roof where Apple makes its cell phones? What about the massive income inequality going on in the United States? You think all the products and food you consume is getting to you humanely? Get fucking real. Also who says I'm a communist? All I said what your analysis of communism sucked and that things like the internet weren't created because of individualism and communist countries also have had great feats.

Also the famines Russia and China experienced were reoccurring famines that had happened in those areas for thousands of years. Long before communism was even an idea. And the number of people that died under communism is wildly overblown. The number usually comes from a book called the black book of communism and yrs later several of the authors came out and said the numbers they used were complete and utter rubbish.

Historians Proving that the Ukrainian Famine Was Not Caused by Stalin and/or Socialism

- The Ukrainian Famine -

Let us address perhaps the most infamous of anti-Stalin myths, the allegation that Stalin deliberately caused the 1931-1933 famine to starve Ukrainians. This idea has been consistently rejected by the most esteemed scholars on the topic. The following quotes are compiled in an article from the Village Voice, cited below.

Alexander Dallin of Stanford University writes:

>There is no evidence it was intentionally directed against Ukrainians... that would be totally out of keeping with what we know -- it makes no sense.

Moshe Lewin of the University of Pennsylvania stated:

>This is crap, rubbish... I am an anti-Stalinist, but I don't see how this [genocide] campaign adds to our knowledge. It's adding horrors, adding horrors, until it becomes a pathology.

Lynne Viola of the University of Toronto writes:

>I absolutely reject it... Why in god's name would this paranoid government consciously produce a famine when they were terrified of war [with Germany]?

Mark Tauger, Professor of History at West Virginia University (reviewing work by Stephen Wheatcroft and R.W. Davies) has this to say:

>Popular media and most historians for decades have described the great famine that struck most of the USSR in the early 1930s as “man-made,” very often even a “genocide” that Stalin perpetrated intentionally against Ukrainians and sometimes other national groups to destroy them as nations... This perspective, however, is wrong. The famine that took place was not limited to Ukraine or even to rural areas of the USSR, it was not fundamentally or exclusively man-made, and it was far from the intention of Stalin and others in the Soviet leadership to create such as disaster. A small but growing literature relying on new archival documents and a critical approach to other sources has shown the flaws in the “genocide” or “intentionalist” interpretation of the famine and has developed an alternative interpretation.

More recent research has discovered natural causes for the Ukrainian famine. Tauger notes:

>...the USSR experienced an unusual environmental disaster in 1932: extremely wet and humid weather that gave rise to severe plant disease infestations, especially rust. Ukraine had double or triple the normal rainfall in 1932. Both the weather conditions and the rust spread from Eastern Europe, as plant pathologists at the time documented. Soviet plant pathologists in particular estimated that rust and other fungal diseases reduced the potential harvest in 1932 by almost nine million tons, which is the largest documented harvest loss from any single cause in Soviet history.

It should be noted that this does not excuse the Soviet state from any and all responsibility for the suffering that took place; one could accuse the government of insufficiently rapid response, and note that initial reports were often downplayed to avoid rocking the boat. But it is clear that the famine was not deliberate, was not a genocide, and (to quote Tauger) "was not fundamentally or exclusively man-made."

Sources

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/d22f2n/historians_proving_that_the_ukrainian_famine_was/

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