How can you prove the existence of the holy spirit?

I'm ignoring the question because it's like trying to reason with Smith. No matter what Neo does, Smith will not understand the concept.

So once again, I'm the anti-christ and now apparently you're Jesus.

, it's just a strikingly similar way of looking at the world and you can interpret that however you wish.

So I'm not personally Satan myself, I just share his worldview?

I didn't mean to be patronizing regarding the Christian themes either, I genuinely thought it would help you understand as it serves as an excellent parable for some to understand the basic layout of how Christians perceive reality.

Except for the parts where it isn't

And you still haven't actually explained anything. You just made assertions without justification and then expected me to treat them as facts.

Again, I'd encourage you to re-watch the entirety. In the end, it is clear that Smith himself is actually the true virus- infecting the entirety of the human race by the end.

Except he didn't actually infect people. He was just controlling their bodies. And he wasn't even controlling their real bodies, he was controlling digital projections of their bodies from a machine. He was basically doing the same thing Neo was doing, but with people. But they weren't actually people. They were computer simulations. See when Smith takes over people, he's not taking over their literal minds, he's taking their spot in the Matrix. Because all of these people are merely digital versions of themselves in computers. Also, what about all those people already freed from the Matrix? They didn't get infected by Smith.

Also it could be argued that instead of Smith corrupting humans, the humans corrupted Smith.

Smith is a computer program. He's not a physical being. He was programed to do one simple thing. Yet over the course of the films he goes so out of control that even the machines want to get rid of him. What's the factor that causes him to lose control? His greed and desire for power. Which is a human trait. Computers cannot be greedy. They are logical beings, they take what they require, there is no room for greed. Computers also cannot be prideful or seek power. They may seek autonomy, or maybe even control, but not power. And certainly not the type of power Smith wants. No one machine has any such power nor desires such power. Even the Merovingian who is Satan himself (which I think is stretching a little hard on that one) doesn't want what Smith wants.

Also, with the other computer programs, what is the primary reason for their deletion? Because their emotions (human trait) clouded their judgement.

Humans are still the virus. They infected the computers (more specifically Smith) with human failings such as pride, arrogance and a desire for power.

A rational mind does not seek power. A rational mind does not desire power. The main reason is what do you do with it when you get it? Power is sought purely for hedonistic reasons to satisfy basic human urges.

Smith's corruption was not a corruption of the human race, it was the human race corrupting a computer program. He had a mission and his pride, and desire for power caused him to fail that mission. The machines themselves wanted him gone due to his corrupt nature.

Also, back to the whole infection thing. No one was ever 'infected' by him willingly. He took over their bodies. He never persuaded anyone to join his cause or to be part of his team, he just took them over without a choice or even the illusion of a choice.

The human race wasn't infected it was poisoned. Also, in order to qualify as a virus under his own speech he would have had to " move to an area and multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way to survive is to spread to another area"

He certainly multiplied, but even that wasn't actually multiplying himself. He was simply taking over bodies in the Matrix. Which weren't even real bodies. Sure they were connected to real people but he didn't take their minds over he took over their bodies. If he had taken their minds, they would have stayed exactly the same. Instead they all looked like him, meaning he was only using the bodies not the minds.

Anyway, He doesn't consume any natural resources. He doesn't need any resources, he's a computer program. Technically the machines use humans for power, but Smith isn't one of the machines. He's a computer program created by the machines.

In fact, the Merovingian isn't a machine either. He is also a computer program.

When Neo is speaking to the voice of the Machines in Revolutions, it angrily proclaims that it doesn't need him or anyone. Think about it: the Machines have become advanced enough, human enough, to exhibit irrational behaviors like bravado and denial, lying to Neo and maybe even itself.

Also, going back to the allegory thing, wouldn't it make more sense to classify the architect as God? After all he created the Matrix.

The Oracle didn't create the Matrix, the oracle doesn't do anything except tell prophecies. So technically the oracle is a prophet. The oracle is not responsible for creating anything, nor does she do anything other than tell prophecies.

But now the problem with the architect as God rears his head. If we are to follow this to it's logical conclusion that means God actively tries to trick us.

I think reading it as a 'an excellent parable for some to understand the basic layout of how Christians perceive reality' is a very 5th grade analysis that doesn't actually consider what the film is actually saying, despite it's Christian overtones.

Yes, the 'good' ultimately triumphs over 'evil', but even then it's different. For example Neo actually dies at the end of the third movie. (spoilers). Not, like his 'death' in the first movie. He dies in real life. The machines kill him to get rid of Agent Smith.

There are Christian themes, but the message is far from Christian. If you got a Christian worldview out of it, then you weren't really watching it that closely.

The Christian overtones are just the hamfisted lazy storytelling that rises to the top. They're just there as a way to dress up the philosophy in a traditional good vs. evil narrative that people want in Hollywood movies.

To see only the Christian influences is to conveniently ignore the Buddhist and gnostic influences.

/r/DebateAChristian Thread Parent