How do you deal with girls who want to hang out first and not date

I'm a girl and got kind of a kick out of this. Ok, as a slight commitment phobe trying to navigate this weird millennial dating shit, there are several reasons I "hang out" with a guy.

1) He's hot and I'd like to go on a date but he doesn’t have the balls to call it that, he's so hot I get too shy to even flirt well or he is maybe a scrub (but still adorable) so I'll slum it a bit cause I'm bored or too shy myself to flirt with him or whatever. It could be a poor communication thing on either end, or just how people casually talk now. I probably wont sleep with the guy, but I might "cruz" mull it over, and he can try and do some jedi shit with a .001% chance while I wonder if he'll bite the bullet and put in a little more effort/respect for a real date after this ambiguous meeting. I might play it cool if I'm shy, scared he's a player, or not sure for any other reason. It is probably a waste of time, but it could answer your "is she into me at all?" question. I'm dumb, I do it, I've been mildly into that bro. As much as I can allow it.

2) I hang out with guys who are interesting/would be good friends/useful for some art or collaborative project or I think I'd want to work with them. I'm a musician and a freelancer, and its always useful to have friends who are intelligent/interesting/skillful. More than a few times I've met musicians (or web developers or whatever) who would be really good network contacts, if theres sometimes sexual tension on the guys part, I do my best to keep it light and platonic and mitigate that vibe if it pops up. This is when I'd like to make creative, not physical, babies with someone.

Also, weird to have to say but platonic friendships exist. Its always creepy and annoying to befriend a guy you don't want to sleep with only to have him think you are some megabitch-golddigging-succubus-slut for it. I'm sorry, I'm bi, everyone in this world is fair game, and I do have to make non sexual friends in this world, gender really doesn’t matter to me in that respect (besides dealing with the likelihood that most straight dudes think sex just cause you smiled). Its not an insult to you or trying to waste your time (quite the opposite) its just how some of us are. Maybe she thinks you're cool, and simply doesn’t want your penis. It happens.

I know you've implied that you've asked these girls out first before the "hanging out" thing happened, but I suspect thats not exactly whats going on given your results. Most women still really want to be wooed and wined and dined a little by the right guy, and most guys are really pretty vague or "pickup artist"y and we don't want to waste our time on that predatory, lazy shit either.

Overall, what I'm getting from this post is you either A) didn't try hard enough to communicate what kind of relationship you were looking for or B) are imposing yourself on women who are just not down.

Either way, you need to pay more attention to what she says and how she acts around you, and take it slow and take you're cues. Its a mutual vibe thing, not all about you and your personal success in "escalating"

for A-- ask her out, on a real date, after your casual hangout. Other women who said it's "scary to date a stranger" are so in my heart. Dating is pressure, dating makes you feel kinda obligated and on the spot, and given the invention of GHB dating for women really can be or feel dangerous. Wanting to get to know someone without the pressure of feeling "bought" or obligated could totally be a valid reason to keep it light, and have a .05 date before the "1st" one. You guys do with weird casual noncommital thing sometimes, we do too, and we'll communicate vaguely and play games sometimes also. For us sometimes its really a safety thing, so cut some slack.

Say you are sonario 1: We agree to hang out cause thats the casual way millenials talk now. If you dont touch me inappropriately too soon and we have a nice talk, and you call or send a sweet or sexy text after about dinner after its over, explicitly saying you're interested in that way, then its probably on.

If its sonario 2 or 3 and you do that, I'll just nicely explain I wanted to jam music with you or so something else and you're not my type, and then you'll know. And we both move on. I won't bother you for business shit if it seems like it'll upset you, and I'm never rude to men who mistakenly have that vibe or just ask, infact, I'll remember how upfront and cool that was, and might even wingman for the guy later and introduce him to my friends if we stay pals and he gets over it.

I think the core issue here is your whole goal seems to be about touching her and "escalating" like its some video game. Personally, I might shop around and fuck off a bit and waste my own time, but at the end of the day, I'm not out to be played. The minimal effort for maximum touchage goal of some men is something you can kind of feel from a mile away.

/r/seduction Thread