Im interested in the opinion of this sub on more eccentric/esoteric spirituality compared to more direct/essential nature spirituality, stuff like Zen. Thoughts?

I think meditative insight such as you describe is only one aspect, but for a system to be complete it also has to proceed along a self study into your psychology in the behavioral sphere of things, and also get you to the recognition and eventual overcoming of what the Buddhists called attachment, what the Christians called sin, or misguidedness, missing the mark, etc.

I studied a pretty esoteric school of thought for some time. (I also have done a lot of study into Buddhism and I think this helped me understand what they where trying to get across). The system is primarily about self observation, leading to the self recognition of being dominated by something in yourself, of having no will such as you previously thought you did, of being subject to many competing drives, of being perpetually overtaken by something which entraps you in the cyclic suffering as the Buddhists might call it.

The metaphor is that you are a chariot being driven by 3 horses. The horses are wild and untamed. The rope by which you guide the horses is in disrepair. And meanwhile, you the driver are not present at the drivers seat, but are sitting in the back of the chariot getting drunk and imagining yourself to be in control of the thing.

First you must come off the liquor and understand the situation that you are not in control of the chariot. Then you must repair the line that goes to the horses. Then you must guide and direct and begin training the horses to follow your lead.

So long as you believe yourself to have will and be in control, you remain in the bar. You need to wake up and realize your state, or be forever driven unconsciously until your chariot crashes and kills you.

For me, the behavioral aspect is part and parcel of the path and is a huge necessity, which requires long and committed self observation and work effort, and cannot be remediated by meditative experiences alone.

/r/Psychonaut Thread