Itinerary advice (Chiang Mai, Krabi, Bangkok)

Hippies love to cite the WWF data that says elephants in the wild survive an average of "up to" 60 years in Laos. But this is political propaganda. Humans survive an average of "up to" 114 years. The average lifespan of an elephant in Myanmar and Laos is about 40.x years. Tragically, the lifespan of an Asiatic elephant in a European zoo is less than half that interval. But the elephants you can ride in Thailand don't live in zoos. In Myanmar, the average lifespan of an elephant employed in logging is about 42.x years. There is no substantial difference between the lifespans of elephants employed in logging and wild elephants. So we can infer that giving rides to tourists (these elephants also haul timber) does not lead to a worrisome probability of disease or injury.

If elephant rides are not unhealthy for the livestock, they might still be miserable, and that would be unethical. How can we tell if they are miserable? My lady is 99 pounds and I can't make her do shit. Nobody is going to make a 6000 pound lady do something she doesn't want to do.

The hippie dippies are always squealing about how cruel rodeos are. This is absurd. Nobody that has ever rodeod would say that. Are bucking horses miserable when they're ridden? Absolutely not. How do you know? If they don't like to buck, they don't. They just shiver and twitch and run away. After they've done that a few times, they are never asked to buck again. Only the ones that like to play the game do it well, and only the ones that do it well get to play. When you try to play tug of war with your dog and she refuses a few times, that's the end of her tug of war career. When you see someone in a vicious fight with a dog over a sock, it's not abuse. It's a game. The dog plays because she likes it.

Likewise, if an elephant doesn't like to work, it lays down and doesn't get up. No prod or hook or cane can make the elephant kneel down to let you climb on its back. You know the elephant is not miserable because you can plainly see with your own eyes its not exhibiting the behaviors that animals exhibit when they are miserable. Like sitting down and doing nothing, or running away.

So if the animal is not unhealthy or miserable, the only question is, Is the fact that an animal is doing work, that fact by itself, is that abuse? I think saying that work is abuse is absurd. You do work. Does that alone mean the owner of your cubicle abusing you? On backpacking trips, my dog has to wear a vest in which he carries his own water. Is that abuse? Monkeys have to build nests. Beavers have to drag saplings to their dams. Hauling tourists isn't abusive because it's a different kind of work.

Some elephants are abused. But that's not because they work. It's because they are abused. If you have knowledge that a particular elephant is being abused, stay away. But don't assume that because one elephant is abused, they all are. And you don't have any knowledge that elephants in Chiang Mai are abused. The hippies will say, "It's cruel because they get beaten! I saw it on YouTube! I read it in a blog!" But you didn't see THAT elephant being beaten and to say all manhouts abuse their livestock because one did is as dumb as saying you should not go to NFL football games because you saw a video of a player hitting his wife. It's just as filthy to say" Manhouts abuse their elephants " as it is to say" Football players are wife beaters." don't be that person.

Also, the value of the elephant is equivilent to about 8 years salary for the manhout. Neither owners nor manhouts abuse their capital and livelihood.

So you have to decide, is it abuse just cuz, or do you have specific information that compels that conclusion. What you saw a Russian circus do to an elephant is not specific information about what Chiang Mai manhouts do. And you should disregard those hippie blogs unless they have specific information. Go to the barns. Does the food look fresh and clean? Is the soil well drained so elephants don't have to stand in mud for days after a rain? Do the elephants have scars? Do they cower? If you see signs of healthy livestock, there's no abuse. Trust your own eyes, not hippie hysteria.

/r/ThailandTourism Thread Parent