Magnetron RF power production delay?

I'm extremely hesitant to comment in this thread due to the nature of the polarity of opinions. This comment reflects my opinions and observations on two of the runs RFMWGUY did which I subjected to analysis which resulted in statistical statements which can and should be debated.

First, on the run which is cited as having thrust like characteristics, the analysis was done looking at the movement during the power ON cycles vs the power OFF cycles. The data indicates that there is a slope change during the ON cycles whereas there is no slope change during the OFF cycles. I did not look at when that change occurs specifically, I merely looked at the first half of each cycle, calculated the slope, then the 2nd half of each cycle calculated the slope and asked the question, was the 1st slope < the 2nd slope.

There was a statistically significant difference in the slope behavior comparing the ON vs OFF cycles, for the one run where data was collected. The statistics do not say why, or what the cause was, but the conclusion for that one run was that power on slope behavior is different than power off slope behavior.

It goes without saying that one run of 40 odd cycles showing statistical significance is not a definitive statement about the reality of any event. It's at best suggestive but very very far from conclusive, irrespective of the cause.

The data is online and available to anyone along with the analysis VBA.

The 2nd analysis, and the data is again online and available to anyone (I have not released my analysis as of yet due to lack of time). This was a pure thermal analysis asking the question if there was any delay in thermal onset during the power on cycle, and what were the characteristics of the temperature change? The data indicates that the temperature starts rising with virtually no delay (<< 1 second) when the magnetron is on and within each power on cycle, the rise is linear, although the slope changes as the magnetron reaches its maximum temperature. The speculation above about a delay of 5 seconds is not supported with this data.

With respect to the comment that manufacturers have calibrated the timer software, the data suggests that such calibration, if any, is sloppy at best. RFMWGUY's 50/50 duty cycle is more like 60/40. Irrespective of opinions for or against EmDrive stuff, it bothers me that statements like that exist when data is readily available to confirm or deny.

With respect to assertions that these observations support EMDrive thrust, or thermal effects, neither assertion has a strong standing because no one has proposed a theory or shown calculations consistent with the data.

I'll ignore the critiques of the assertion that it's thrust, those critiques have been prolific here.

Instead, my final comments will be on the assertions that it's thermal, which seem to be couched in equally unsupported opinion.

For the thermal hypothesis, it would be helpful if we could see some calculations that explains the following question derived from data.

If the effect is thermal, given that the overall temperature change has an upward slope coupled with the observation that during the power on cycle the temperature immediately starts increasing linearly, why is the motion slope different between the first half of the power on cycle than the 2nd half? In other words, given that hot air rises, and in this case, starts out with a temperature well above ambient temperature producing lift both while the magnetron is ON and OFF, I would expect that as the temperature rises, the lift would increase as a linear function of the temperature rise (within the observed ranges during the power on cycles, the overall function is a decreasing positive slope over very large ranges of increasing temperature). The observed motion changes are not linear during power on cycles as shown by the data. Why is that?

I think Lift = V * (P/2.87) * (1/Tamb) - (1/Tenv) Lift =lift V = envelope volume P = pressure at altitude Tamb = ambient temperature Tenv = envelope temperature

I don't see a delay time in this formula, so I suspect that this model is not an accurate depiction of physical reality of a thermal hypothesis.

To invoke a properly requested comment often used by CK, I'd like to see the math on proposed thermal answers that is consistent with the extremely limited data.

/r/EmDrive Thread Parent