All of them will eventually go mainstream? or just some of them?

Some of them.

The idea that all subcultures eventually go mainstream is absurd on it's face. What I want to know is, are the Amish finally about to go mainstream?

It's as if you're implying that ten thousand subcultures' influence is purely relative when that couldn't be farther from the case especially within hyper-connected society; are you saying that subcultures aren't intertwined in their existence? Take away the tribalism and tell me what good there is in having more subcultures.

Just because the information exists, doesn't mean people are rushing out to join up for every little subculture they come across.

But because that information is readily available to anyone who thought not or wishes to see it, any subversive qualities these subcultures may have had become increasingly nullified. For subcultures, it's like having a group of prisoners trying to plot their escape from a panopticon.

You are the one that suggested that a lack of cohesiveness is a failing of counterculture rather than a feature. why should counterculture be cohesive? Occupy wasn't remotely cohesive.

And look how well that went; just because I said the lack of cohesiveness is the reason for its failing doesn't mean I'm advocating for more cohesion. Believe me, I want to believe there's another way beyond that. Remember when I said that people's notions of counterculture are stuck within a postmodern paradigm? That's what I mean; as someone who heavily participated in it, Occupy very much tried to be cohesive despite advocating decentralization.

More like an incoherent Katamari Damacy ball of a thousand special interests.

Exactly, that's one of the things that caused activists to stop participating; no one knew what exactly they were advocating. The counterculture got snuffed by the very people who were as far as being only mildly interested in it.

So you think variety is bad? You'd rather we all wear a single uniform and march lock-step? Who gets to decide what the uniform looks like and how we should salute one another?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK2fNG26xFg

I'm not saying variety is bad; I'm saying that in a society where every single would-be radical idea can be seen at the flick of a finger, modesty is key. Why else do you think hipsters exist? They're every past subculture combined while simultaneously having no real substance; postmodern counterculture has come full circle.

Oh, so mainstream people are the only people worth staying connected with. There's no room for individualism, don't rock the boat, you'll hurt your credit rating!

You really need to get that stick out of your ass; I wasn't saying that at all. I was referring to people in general; just look at the blogosphere and the "radicals" that inhabit it. You can only have so many conflicting interests that breed worthwhile discussions.

No, I don't need it. Neither do you.

Oh, so the media coming out of Hong Kong and Ukraine over this past year is of no use to me? Did Occupy Wall Street's squatting of Zuccotti Park have no influence on the people of Syria or Egypt? No? How metamodernist of you, /s. Mainstream culture has never been a cohesive entity; to say that it's crumbling is the most bullshit statement I've read this week. It's the counterculture and the subcultures that reinforce it that have always been cohesive; that's why I linked "Portrait of a New Radical." What was that Margaret Reed quote? "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." I'm not saying it should stay that way, but I feel like it needs to be pointed out.

More room for individualism, more local ideas, more local cultural competition.

Ah yes, and more room for appropriation and thousands of works that will never see the light of day; I'm all for localization here, but come the fuck on.

You don't need to compete with Hollywood, they need to compete with you.

Today the differences between a cohesive, local subculture and an advertising firm are next to none. You can't expect counterculture to come by rejecting the mainstream (like the amish) let alone convincing yourself of its supposed doom; that exudes a postmodern sensibility. You have to work with that dichotomy because both Hollywood and yourself are competing for the average person's attention. It's not as simple as you describe.

I just don't think you're looking for the changes in the right places.

That's part of the reason why I'm trying to start this zine.