Possible to extend Cinderhulk to other champions/roles?

TP/Smite Top laners

  • The idea came from this previous idea of top laners not running an escape summoner, namely fizz and hecarim running tp/ignite. This means they're a little more vulnerable early, but they're very strong in the 1v1 and the 2v2.

  • Now, top laners competitively commonly start the game by jungling, so competitively, they experimented with smite so they could jungle faster. Plus, there's no risk of being ganked as a mock 2nd jungler. With the introduction of cinderhulk, and tank top laners being powerful all-around, it became official for top laners to run smite.

  • And the only downside, THE ONLY DOWNSIDE, is not running flash.

But here's what it gives you:

  • Your level 1 has faster jungling, so you don't miss as much exp in lane. If you 2v1, you will have faster jungling because you have 2 smites. You will have faster dragon control. You will be higher level than your opponent because you can jungler faster than him (if he takes flash instead of smite). Gromp buff is essentially a thornmail, scaling off your max Hp, incredibly powerful right now. Only obtainable by smiting gromp.

A 2nd smite gives you increased control in other aspects:

  • Your top can control the scuttle crab by himself. Cheese possibilities: Early 2 man dragon, early 2 man baron, 4 smites in a 15-sec-or-longer smite. Extra gold fueled onto top laner because there's extra gold given from camps when you have machete, and you can only have machete when you have smite.


Here's how you play it out:

  • On high mobility champs that scale very hard, and are a little bit difficult to gank. Right now, the #1 champ for this is Shyvana: Passive Armor/MR, W gives movespeed, challenging smite makes her difficult to 1v1, Pushes very fast, Clears jungle quickly: Can use smite often and effectively, particularly in counter-jungling: If enemy jungler is 15 seconds late to his buff, you've already taken it.

In solo queue, here's how you use it:

  • Passive in the early game. You're vulnerable to ganks. Smite does nothing aside from gromp passive, which you might not get, so you might be outplayed. Farm up a little bit, once you finish skirmisher's with cinderhulk, and start getting items, you are un-1v1-able, and if you're super mobile, you can simply counter-jungle, or even solo drag as a top laner. But in solo queue, split push all day. Cause a lot of mayhem. LOTS of pressure. Force them to address your pressure. Constantly farm, become a late game god.

It's even stronger in competitive play than in solo queue:

  • A coordinated team with coordinated efforts at denying objectives and counter-jungling is VERY powerful. 4-buffing is not possible because of 2 smites. 2v1 swap -> very early dragon. Accelerate the objective game around dragon control. You can 2v1, take a lane early, creating a very long lane, pushing into your enemy's 2nd tower. If they freeze, your top laner can steal that side of the jungle, so instead of your Top being starved, the starvation passes onto the enemy jungler. Skirmishers Sabre w/ Cinderhulk has an amazing build path, and is amazingly more effective than sunfire which costs 300g more.

  • It generates so much pressure, and there is so little counter-play.

Other champs you could try:

  • After shyvana, rek'sai could work because of how well she can split push, and how well she can deal with split pushers. Then, fizz, hecarim, and possibly gragas. Gragas becomes the exact role he was in the jungle, but accelerated gold gains in the solo lane. Possibly Mundo: Little weaker early, might not even need it, but a mundo is tankier and deals more damage (gromp buff) when he has smite instead of flash.

  • Another reason shyvana is the best for this: She kills tanks faster than anyone else. % health damage on E, and BotRK is practically core on her.

It's not necessarily easy, you'll likely struggle in the beginning, but if you know how to play without flash, every other aspect of the game becomes better with smite instead.

Here's why it doesn't work on supports:

  • Supports scale lowest and slowest of all roles. Supports jungle poorly. Supports don't have a lot of gold: Need vision/utility/mobility early, won't get big tank items late. Supports heavily scale with utility, not tankiness. Supports lack damage: If they get tanky they can be ignored. Supports split push poorly. Supports sometimes need to be in lane, tops are not tied down the same way.
/r/summonerschool Thread