As a PvPer for seven years i gotta say...

I never said 3v3 is inherently bad design, I said Blizzard has designed it badly. I'm sure it's possible to make a 3v3 mode where the most skilled and co-ordinated team takes the win, but that is not what Blizzard has made. In CS:GO, the games are 5v5 and every time the most skilled team will win. There are no random factors that can arbitrarily give one team the advantage. But those factos do exist in Blizzard's PvP.

So, when it comes to arguing against a position that was never held, you're just as guilty. Because I'm not saying, and never tried to imply, that Blizzard should move away from the Arena model because it's bad design - I'm saying they haven't made the Arena model what it should be. When you can start an Arena match and immediately tell you'll win/lose the match without ever needing to gauge the skill of the other team - which I successfully did every day I've played Arena - there is bad design at play. There's no such thing in other competitive games like LoL, CS:GO, DotA2 and the like. Sure, it's still possible to realize early on that you're going to lose/win in those games too, but those realizations come because you've figured out the discrepancy between your and their skill level and team coordination.

So you couldn't be more off with your "It's as if you were complaining an RTS was badly designed because you didn't like it and wanted it to play more like a shooter". You may be confusing me with the OP, who's replied

"This is exactly what i want. This is exactly what i'm trying to convey to people. This is what WoW PvP needs to be. Would you not agree that things would be better this way?"

to this:

"That's not going to change without a complete overhaul of wow's combat. Not just PvP balance, WoW would have to revolve around debuffs/buffs, you'd have to aim your abilites, there has to be something to distinguish a good player from a bad one."

I've never said that myself, and I'm not necessarily saying that's the solution. In fact, I'm not offering a solution at all. I'm not trying to say what Blizzard needs to do to fix the game, I'm just saying it needs fixing - because something is broken. Skill should be the only deciding factor, but it is not. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying WoW needs to be a different game, I'm just saying PvP needs to value skill above any other factor.

Because as it stands now, your skill could be completely irrelevant if you have the wrong class. In CS:GO you may screw up by getting the wrong gun and thus losing the round by not being able to perform as expected. In WoW you may screw up by spending weeks leveling to 100, gearing up, learning your class, and then realizing you chose a bad class and thus lose EVERY round by not being able to perform as expected. And then the only way out of that predicament is to start from scratch with a new class.

That is nothing but bad design if you expect the game to be taken seriously as an eSport. That type of design is equivalent to a football tournament where one team accidentally got a huge goal and has to stick with it for the entire tournament or simply give up and try again next year. Their skill doesn't matter anymore, they're inherently at a disadvantage and watching their matches is boring because you know they won't win anyway.

/r/wow Thread Parent