/r/atheism is still in the Christ myth camp

I am sorry, I misspoke. I meant Juvenal. Oops. My bad.

Listen, it's been done to death. I'm not going to do your research for you, but here's a quick couple things I grabbed and cut and pasted.

Let us for a moment accept the wrong Christian dating of the writing of the Gospels, from +70 K. E. to +95 K. E. Then, at least four decades passed by before the Christ’s disciples and the followers were to report his feats, signs and wonders in the Gospels, having let before that the non-related Paul to speak about his theories. Is it possible so many eyewitnesses to wait for forty and more years before they sat down to write a report on these unheard of “events”, after they had let a convert intruder, who had not witnessed any of them, to do run around promulgating his theories? And again, they do not agree among themselves on what they wrote, but say and unsay, contradict each other, etc. Also, at that time there was a great number of rabbis, chroniclers, historians, scientists, Jews, Greeks, Romans, Gentiles (such as Dio Chrysostom, Dio Cassius, Diodoros Siceliotis, Plutarch, Oinomaos, Pausanias, Juvenal, Pliny the Elder, Seneca, Philo, Justus, and many more) and none of them was impressed by any at all, so as to note down at least one of these tremendous “events” that were impossible to have happen in secret? In the known History many subordinate events have been noted and there would be no difference if they had completely been ignored. But from the numerous and extraordinary events concerning Christ nothing passed onto History.

(emphasis mine)

http://atheistfoundation.org.au/article/on-the-historicity-of-jesus-christ/

-On the Historicity of Jesus Christ by Prof. Ioannis Roussos

Here's a blurb about Hannibal I copied from the web.

Hannibal is generally regarded as one of the best military strategists and tacticians of all time, the double envelopment at Cannae an enduring legacy of tactical brilliance. According to Appian, several years after the Second Punic War, Hannibal served as a political advisor in the Seleucid Kingdom and Scipio was sent there on a diplomatic mission from Rome.

It is said that at one of their meetings in the gymnasium Scipio and Hannibal had a conversation on the subject of generalship, in the presence of a number of bystanders, and that Scipio asked Hannibal whom he considered the greatest general, to which the latter replied, "Alexander of Macedonia". To this Scipio assented since he also yielded the first place to Alexander. Then he asked Hannibal whom he placed next, and he replied, "Pyrrhus of Epirus", because he considered boldness the first qualification of a general; "for it would not be possible", he said, "to find two kings more enterprising than these".

Scipio was rather nettled by this, but nevertheless he asked Hannibal to whom he would give the third place, expecting that at least the third would be assigned to him; but Hannibal replied, "to myself; for when I was a young man I conquered Hispania and crossed the Alps with an army, the first after Hercules."

As Scipio saw that he was likely to prolong his self-laudation he said, laughing, "where would you place yourself, Hannibal, if you had not been defeated by me?" Hannibal, now perceiving his jealousy, replied, "in that case I should have put myself before Alexander". Thus Hannibal continued his self-laudation, but flattered Scipio in an indirect manner by suggesting that he had conquered one who was the superior of Alexander. At the end of this conversation Hannibal invited Scipio to be his guest, and Scipio replied that he would be so gladly if Hannibal were not living with Antiochus, who was held in suspicion by the Romans. Thus did they, in a manner worthy of great commanders, cast aside their enmity at the end of their wars.

Maximilian Otto Bismarck Caspari, in his article in the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, praises Hannibal in these words:

As to the transcendent military genius of Hannibal there cannot be two opinions. The man who for fifteen years could hold his ground in a hostile country against several powerful armies and a succession of able generals must have been a commander and a tactician of supreme capacity. In the use of strategies and ambuscades he certainly surpassed all other generals of antiquity. Wonderful as his achievements were, we must marvel the more when we take into account the grudging support he received from Carthage. As his veterans melted away, he had to organize fresh levies on the spot. We never hear of a mutiny in his army, composed though it was of North Africans, Iberians and Gauls. Again, all we know of him comes for the most part from hostile sources. The Romans feared and hated him so much that they could not do him justice. Livy speaks of his great qualities, but he adds that his vices were equally great, among which he singles out his more than Punic perfidy and an inhuman cruelty. For the first there would seem to be no further justification than that he was consummately skillful in the use of ambuscades. For the latter there is, we believe, no more ground than that at certain crises he acted in the general spirit of ancient warfare. Sometimes he contrasts most favorably with his enemy. No such brutality stains his name as that perpetrated by Claudius Nero on the vanquished Hasdrubal Barca. Polybius merely says that he was accused of cruelty by the Romans and of avarice by the Carthaginians. He had indeed bitter enemies, and his life was one continuous struggle against destiny. For steadfastness of purpose, for organizing capacity and a mastery of military science he has perhaps never had an equal.

Even the Roman chroniclers acknowledged Hannibal's supreme military leadership, writing that, "he never required others to do what he could and would not do himself".

According to Polybius 23, 13, p. 423:

It is a remarkable and *very cogent proof of Hannibal's having been by nature a real leader and far superior to anyone else in statesmanship, that though he spent seventeen years in the field, passed through so many barbarous countries, and employed to aid him in desperate and extraordinary enterprises numbers of men of different nations and languages, no one ever dreamt of conspiring against him, nor was he ever deserted by those who had once joined him or submitted to him**.

*Count Alfred von Schlieffen developed his eponymously titled "Schlieffen Plan" (1905/1906) from his military studies, with a particularly heavy emphasis on the envelopment technique which Hannibal employed to surround and destroy the Roman army in the battle of Cannae.

George S. Patton believed himself a reincarnation of Hannibal as well as of many other people, including a Roman legionary and a Napoleonic soldier.

Norman Schwarzkopf Jr., the commander of the Coalition of the Gulf War, claimed, "The technology of war may change, the sophistication of weapons certainly changes. But those same principles of war that applied to the days of Hannibal apply today."

According to the military historian Theodore Ayrault Dodge, Hannibal excelled as a tactician.No battle in ** history** is a finer sample of tactics than Cannae. But he was yet greater in logistics and strategy. No captain ever marched to and fro among so many armies of troops superior to his own numbers and material as fearlessly and skillfully as he.

No man ever held his own so long or so ably against such odds. Constantly overmatched by better soldiers, led by generals always respectable, often of great ability, he yet defied all their efforts to drive him from Italy, for half a generation.

Excepting in the case of Alexander, and some few isolated instances, all wars up to the Second Punic War, had been decided largely, if not entirely, by battle-tactics. Strategic ability had been comprehended only on a minor scale. Armies had marched towards each other, had fought in parallel order, and the conqueror had imposed terms on his opponent. Any variation from this rule consisted in ambuscades or other stratagems. That war could be waged by avoiding in lieu of seeking battle; that the results of a victory could be earned by attacks upon the enemy's communications, by flank-maneuvers, by seizing positions from which safely to threaten him in case he moved, and by other devices of strategy, was not understood...

However, For the first time in the history of war, we see two contending generals avoiding each other, occupying impregnable camps on heights, marching about each other's flanks to seize cities or supplies in their rear, harassing each other with small-war, and rarely venturing on a battle which might prove a fatal disaster—all with a well-conceived purpose of placing his opponent at a strategic disadvantage... That it did so was due to the teaching of Hannibal.

(emphasis mine)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal

/r/badhistory Thread Parent