/r/circlejerk: To some countries Russia was "far, far worse" than Nazi Germany

Agree with counter-argument about liberation.Though, Russians do not owe any explanation or have to show any remorse.

I think acknowledgment goes a long way, and people don't have to agree on everything. Not comparing for any reason aside from a reference to something bad, and not suggesting any equivalence, Germany has shown remorse and tried to put its past behind it while not denying it or being belligerent about it.

Eastern european nations can go fuck themselves

Well, that escalated quickly....

they want to blame someone for horrible things they can look in the mirror

I agree with this, and would expect the same standard from any country. The difference is that one group of countries has a fairly small impact on events, the other casts a long shadow onto regional and world events. Latvia doesn't have much influence on anything. Russia does. There is a scale of impact to be considered.

they are the good guys

I never suggested this, but if they are claiming to be above any shitty history and it isn't accurate, they're hypocrites. But I would also raise the point of scale again here. Germany had an enormous impact on events, so they should own up to the damage caused. By your logic, you'd be OK if they said of the Soviets from day one after the war, "they want to blame someone for horrible things they can look in the mirror"?

Everyone shares collective responsibility

Do they? How about varying degrees of responsibility? Bigger, more influential and powerful nations should bare more it seems to me. This includes any great power, not just current Russia. How much damage or influence can a country of 1 or 2 million people have on global or regional events?

The same is with Russia, communists were building something

My issue with this concept is that very similar things could be said of Germany. What is Germany stopped before going into Russia, or only expanded for 300 miles around Germany, but still purged, deported, killed, Germanified, much of Europe. Hey, the Nazis were building something. They had no need for democracy or rights. People were content, some people got murdered. Many went on holidays, got married, etc.

This seems like a nightmare to me, and I wouldn't want to defend it, but you're OK with it?

Others were cowards and now are barking as jackals, under the protection of the hawk.

I think they would say they were defenseless for 40 years and are resentful, so take the current opportunity to poke what they perceive as their subjegator in the eye.

For the diplomacy's sake Russians should say something like: Yeah, it was pretty bad. Yeah, fuck you.

See, if any country said that, pretty much everyone would be pissed who had their culture imposed on/minimized/stunted for 40 years.

Hell, if Germany said that, Russia I imagine would be mental about it. If the US said that relating to wars, the world (and Russia) would be apoplectic IMO, you don't think so? Do you think thats how Germany, the US, China, orCambodia should deal with its victims, neighbors, and citizens?

I will say that Russian identity is now based on the Victory Day. Not on communism, not on liberty, justice, not on peace and prosperity and tolerance, not on democracy

While I have no issue whatsoever with this in principal, I will say I'm uneasy with the level of nationalism that seems to be involved, as well as the belligerence toward former bloc and satellite countries.

I don't give a shit if they're democratic, prosperous, communist, or whatever. I care that the thread of denial of what seems to many to be a less than ideal 40 year history mixed with nationalism and belligerence is impacting the world negatively.

It is like the day Russia was born, proved that it can live.

I'm not sure if you agree with it or are just stating the general sentiment. Either way, it begs the question. Its OK to do anything to live? Occupy, cleanse, impose, destroy culture of others, kill millions of your own people and neighbors? Its all OK if whoever is doing it at the time feels its best for survival? Thats a pretty macabre way to view things, and if other countries behaved that way it would be a really bad world, as in much worse than it is now. Survival doesn't justify anything. You'd be OK if I needed to kill your family to survive? You'd understand and be OK if the US decided it needed to level Russia to survive?

So if Poles, Hungarians, Czechs want to cooperate with Russia, they should respect it.

OK, and shouldn't Russia respect grievances from them in return instead of telling them to fuck off? How about Poles, Hungarians, Czechs want to cooperate with Russia and tell them to fuck off. Thats essentially what you suggested as the way Russia should deal with countries, why not expect the same in return?

Most Russian people distrust USA or Europe.

It goes both ways, and is largely a result of vilifying the other. There are actually value differences as well, but I'm not sure which is causing more of a problem. I don't think you'd disagree with either roof these points.

They don't form foreign connections. It is only the sense of Patriotism, which is what I demand other nations to stop practicing.

I dont understand this point, can you clarify?

Every country is build on lies, on myth.

I agree on this.

While I believe both sides are vilifying the other, I sense a belligerent, combative tone from people here and in the Russian media I read. As a westerner, I see media painting Russia as bad, aggressive, Putin as the villain, etc, but I do not see the same vitriol. The more aggressive one side gets, the other will escalate. I'm not sure how to de-escalate at this point without both sides making concessions, neither seems willing to currently.

I'm sure Russia will do just fine without western relations, but its a shame such close neighbors appear to be so different that minimal common ground seems difficult.

/r/russia Thread Parent