r/news John Oliver interviews Snowden... "The only reason Edward Snowden isn't dead or in solitary confinement 23 hours a day is his foresight."

They say that he has taken 1.7 million documents. They've been quite clear on that.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-much-did-snowden-take-not-even-nsa-really-knows-253940

Apparently even the General Alexander admits to not knowing exactly what he took.

If there is a policy or document describing the agency's efforts to collect everything of Americans in order to help establish a dictatorship or destroy democracy or to look into the psychological behavior of Americans in order to control and manipulate their behavior politically.

Sure, they're going to put something like this in clear writing for you to be convinced. If that's what it takes for you to be convinced, then so be it.

As such, there is nothing like that so you cannot change my mind on something I have studied so well.

For now ...

And yeah, keep telling yourself that you've studied things so well. That's what smart and educated people do, right? Go about dropping "I'm so smart and educated and well-read" every so often. I wonder whom you're trying to convince? Me or yourself? But anyway, that's not the point. I'll try my best not to direct personal critiques.

Now what do you need to see for you to change your mind? What does the agency have to do to earn your trust? How many terrorists does it have to catch? How many plots does it have to stop as even 1 plot stopped saving lives doesn't make you impressed (which is abhorrent and disgusting in my humanitarian views).

I already told you. Look up the answer from a few comments ago.

I'm worried about the domestic surveillance infrastructure. Why?

Ah, we've been through this. Scary future ... nazi germany rising ... asteroids hitting, etc. Remember?

Ah more insults.

Well, you did bait me with that oh-so-humble brag.

Yeah you did, you asked me how old I am in a condescending and insulting manner. I am older than you that's all you need to know.

Fine, let's drop it. Clearly I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm 31 btw, fwiw.

And all that was way worse than the NSA. So I don't see your point. The Church committee went nowhere and Edgar Hoover wasn't as bad as some people think.

What a bullshit cop out statement. Wasn't as bad as some people think. What the hell does that mean? Obviously there are crackpots who are going to have outlandish claims but you don't use them to measure people's opinion. It's agreed that JEH had numerous abuses of power and became a one-man institution that threatened the checks and balances of govt power. If you disagree with that, I think you've really got yourself a deeply statist philosophy that I can't do much with over reddit comments.

Then stop name-dropping and discuss the issues. Define your problem with the NSA.

In one sentence? Lack of transparency and clear separation between the SIGINT and COMSEC parts of the NSA which are clearly at odds with each other in terms of their role in national security.

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