Revoked: Brokenhearted Baha'is: LGBT's Rejected by Their Church

What you are essentially describing is covenant-breaking in rejecting Shoghi Effendi. The Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha is very much authentic. The people who attempted to accused the Will and Testament of being fake had no authority do so. They didn't speak Persian and don't know anything about the history of the Will.

This is a very good analysis of the legitimacy of His will.

https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/mitchells_mistake/

Also, you have some confusion about covenant-breakers vs, unenrolled Baha'is. Covenant-breakers area those who challenge the covenant by rejecting the means of authority in the Baha'i Faith, forming a new sect, or supporting or associating with such people. Unenrolled Baha'is are Baha'is who do not enroll for some reason. I guess this would describe me. I am not enrolled for some personal reasons. It can also refer to those who flagrantly broke Baha'i rules and were expelled from the community. I identify as Baha'i religiously but personal issues prevent my formal enrollment. Someone de-enrolled is not a covenant breaker. They are still a Baha'i.

We take the covenant very seriously and challenging the authority of Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ is not welcomed or seen as useful. You can have differing opinions from the UHJ, but means of challenging their authority by rejecting the covenant are not accepted. Really, you can hold any opinion you want within reason as long as you don't uphold yourself as an authority of force your beliefs on others.

This is a great website. I really suggest you look at it. The sections dealing with Shoghi Effendi will be especially useful.

http://covenantstudy.org

Of course not, but don't you think its time for the entire "Men of Justice" to face that comparing being gay to pedophilia with teenage boys is a mistake? Or to stop comparing homosexuality to alcoholism? Or to stop believing it should be "willed away"? Isn't it time to stop calling homosexuality a disease?

We do not associate homosexuality with pedophilia. It's an extrapolation based on a ban on pederasty, sex with young men and older men. I know of no such statements ever saying homosexuality is perverted or pedophilic. This also extends to women. Did you read the article I gave you? I also don't know of any recent letters from the 2000's calling homosexuality a disease. Frankly, it's just an action that's not meant to be done. Shoghi Effendi did not have scientific authority and also did not comment on the origins of homosexuality.

This is what the UHJ does to people who question the way I do. It is an attempt to deny freedom of belief and to suppress criticism

You're attempting to deflect right now. We doing believe in challenging the Univeral House of Justice's authority. Fundementay, this is an action that clashes with calling oneself a Baha'i and you have some very major misunderstanding of the covenant. We believe in the covenant to prevent the Baha'i Faith from splitting apart.

And I still refer you to the right UHJ has to abrogate according to the times. This is no different than the fluidity of sharia law.

They may only change their own enactments, but homosexuality is something which is universally forbidden in very clear language many times. Shoghi Effendi said it is something that can never be engaged in despite what society does.

An lgbt person can be a Baha'i if they call their sexuality a perversion and disease. How is that not oppression?

I do not know of any statements ever saying it is a perversion. And I know of no modern letters calling it a disease.

been Baha'i if I had left my partner of 15-20 years. How is that not oppression? As long as I change my (perhaps celibate) love for her to a perversion, I am welcome in the Baha'i community. I was sexually abused as a teenager by men. I know the difference between same gender intimacy (not sex) and pederasty.

Because it is a voluntary choice you make that no one is forcing you to do. If we told you that you have to then that's one thing, but no one was making you. Also, I have said several times I can't think of modern letters saying it is a perversion. And according to Shoghi Effendi the ban on pederasty is also a broader ban on homosexuality.

If I struck out the blessed union from the UCC minister, I could become a Baha'i. And then after all this to say my faith is not truly Baha'i unless I'm part of the "Haifan" community, that is oppression and has been for many lgbt unenrolled Baha'i.

Yet again you insist on derogatory language. Would you appreciate me calling you a "Muhammaden"? Then please show my religion basic respect I afford you. We don't recognize people who reject the covenant as Baha'is because of the covenants absolute centrality to the Baha'i Faith. Frankly, I di t know where someone stands when they believe in Baha'u'llah and the covenant but just don't follow the rules.

But I hope you also know your sexuality is not a disease.

Yes, I do, and it's quite confessing of you to assume this is how I feel. I have no idea why you constantly insist on using the word perversion when Baha'is don't think this way. I searched two different compilations and can't find this word at all.

Trust me, you are not helping and I do not appreciate your misguided activism. Do you realize you're exasperating the very people you're trying to claim to defend? You're not helping by accusing the Baha'i Faith of being discriminatory and oppressive, or by challenging the covenant, or using offensive and rude terminology when I ask you to stop.

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