Teenage Taylor Swift

First off, I think we agree a lot more than we disagree, especially on the core issues.

Respectful discussion is the key to helping people understand how certain comments may be hurtful, and being intentionally antagonistic isn't helpful. That said I'd like to respond to some of the specific points we disagree on.

why is explaining yourself so bad? Perhaps a mature, respectful explanation of why something is offensive to you is better than "ugh! Those ick redditors are sooooo racist. Not like us though!"

A mature, respectful explanation is better. It's also exhausting. You take 10, 15, or sometimes even 30 minutes to write out a respectful, well thought-out post, and if it's particularly personal to you, you're also pouring your heart out. 90% of the time all you receive in response are comments dismissing you out of hand, downvotes, and the same tired cliches ("can't you take a joke?, "go back to SRS/tumblr, fatty", etc). That absolutely does not make comments whose sole purpose is smug moral superiority okay, I'm only explaining why people can't always give a thorough response.

I always try to give a respectful, informative response when I can, but sometimes I don't have the time or energy.

As for it being a place to vent, what good does that do other than build your own superiority complex?

For some people, seeing the bigoted comments all over reddit and being dismissed and/or mocked when they try to explain why it's hurtful can be genuinely emotionally draining, stressing, or depressing. They need a place where they can simply have a conversation with people that share their opinions and experiences to cheer-up and recharge emotionally. That doesn't work if that place is filled with the same kind of discussions that wore them down in the first place.

[banning discussion] communicates that SRS thinks other redditors are incapable of mature discussion. And if they aren't, why is just downvoting them not enough?

It's not about assuming that redditors are incapable of mature discussion/debate. As I mentioned above, it's that it's a place designed as a respite from that discussion. To be clear, I am absolutely not saying debate is bad; I'm just saying I think having a private place to "hang-out" with like-minded friends is also okay.

not giving someone who you're quoting a chance to respond is a PRIME system for misrepresenting people or taking quotes out of context.

I absolutely agree and I've seen that happen from time to time, and it's not okay. I'll address this more later on.

Having discussions about the casual racism and sexism that appear is necessary BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THE RIGHT WAY.

Yes, 100%

The ultimate issue with SRS is that it's antagonistic.

I think the ultimate issue with SRS is that it tries to accomplish two goals in one sub:

  • call out "shit reddit says",
  • give people a place to escape

However these goals can't both be accomplished properly in the same subreddit. As you've said (and I agree), calling out the "shit reddit says" should allow for discussion, but allowing discussion makes it not a great place to escape.

In my mind, it should be two separate subreddits.

One that allows people a place to "escape" and talk with others frustrated with the frequent bigotry. This sub should maybe be private with membership granted on request; this would serve the dual purpose of keeping out trolls/bigots as well as keeping venting, that could be seen as antagonistic by the average redditor, out of the public view.

The other subreddit would be the one for calling things out and explaining why they are hurtful/bigoted. That subreddit should not ban discussion (although trolls and outright bigots should probably still be banned).

This would allow respectfully calling out content on reddit, and having discussions about racism, sexism and other bigotry, while also having a (separate) space for people feeling weary or stressed by it all to commiserate with like-minded people.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that approach.

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