Trans activists: how do you explain women who “lived as” men for extended periods without apparent gender dysphoria?

How do we know that body dysphoria comes first and social dysphoria comes second, rather than the other way around?

If you’re curious about the study, just look up cloacal exstrophy + gender

The only thing that would make me think that this is not applicable to ordinary kids (including those with gender dysphoria) is 1) afaik, all of these kids had to go through medically-assisted puberty. Ordinary gender dysphoric kids often desist at puberty but that wouldn’t have necessarily played out that way here because these kids had more of a choice in which puberty they went through. 2) I suspect there was not as much pushback from the parents against letting the kid transition to male, as the parents knew the kids was genetically male and would need medical intervention either way

So my best guess is that ordinary kids with “gender mismatched brains” would be even less likely than the cloacal exstrophy kids to persist/go on to transition rather than just be GNC/gay people

I simply have a hard time buying the “body map” theory as there are many holes in it...

  • if adults can have dysphoria about their lack of breasts, why don’t all prepubescent girls feel dysphoria about not having breasts?

  • what evolutionary purpose would dysphoria possibly serve? It doesn’t follow the same mechanisms as, say, phantom limb pain, and it seems all gender identity does is occasionally cause crippling dysphoria... it just seems evolutionarily useless

  • why can’t we observe dysphoria in any other species? Why doesn’t a sufficiently estrogenized male mouse try to bite off its genitals?

  • many trans people don’t develop dysphoria about their body parts until later in life... for example, gender dysphoric kids sometimes say they didn’t KNOW that boys and girls even had different parts, they just thought they could be the opposite sex. Others develop dysphoria about traits only after realizing they’re sexually dimorphic (like, idk, temples). Many don’t develop dysphoria until puberty. Many transwomen are dysphoric about being too tall, whereas natal women report greater satisfaction with their height when they’re taller than average.

  • plenty of trans people don’t have dysphoria about their genitals but do have dysphoria about their secondary sex characteristics and how they’re perceived

  • dysphoria is often not constant over time

  • a good number of transwomen report a phantom penis sensation after SRS (and transmen with breasts and top surgery)

/r/GCdebatesQT Thread Parent