/u/hdah24 explains why it is wrong to disassociate terrorists from their religion.

How does this apologetic nonsense have 3 gildings? Did you people even read the post or did you see "long post, pro-Islam" and upvote like mindless sheep?

Let's go through these claims:

Their ideology is based on those of the Khawarij – a group that are the original fundamentalists in Islam,

It's based on a faction of the Khwarij. The way you make it sound paints all Khawrij as bad people when they weren't - and you well know the Ibadi Muslims of Oman trace their lineage and teachings to this group.

What you should say is, their ideology is rooted in Takfirism as developed by Sayyid Qutb and Ayman-al-Zawahiri. ISIL's theology has many modern components that could only arise in a post-WWI world.

they came about long after the death of the Prophet and the first three Caliphs (companions of the Prophet) during the first fitnah. They killed the 4th caliph and the son-in-law of the Prophet, Ali Ibn Abu Talib.

They did not come about "long after", it was less than 20 years after Muhammad's death. Those Caliph's you mention were all murdered prematurely by fellow Muslims, the way you make it sound here is again misleading, as the Khwarij are totally removed from early Islam.

Their motivations were non-Islamic and can't be retroactively attached to the Islamic teachings left behind by the Prophet and the Qur'an.

Except they weren't non-Islamic. The entire basis of their ideology was Islam and the succession of the prophet - what you just told is an outright lie.

They killed Ali because they believed he wasn't fit to be Caliph after submitting to arbitration with Muawiyah. How is that non-Islamic? It is literally about who will lead the Muslims. Are you going to argue the position of Caliph is non-Islamic? Good luck with that.

Suicide is a major sin, yet acceptable for them. These are people who will claim anything to further their motives.

Yes, suicide is a major sin. Do you think these guys don't know that? That's just ignorant and dismissive.

Suicide is a sin but to fight and die for Allah to become a martyr against Islam's enemies has tons of theological justification, both in Sunni and Shi'a Islam.

Plenty of scholars have written on why suicide bombing for instance is acceptable.

Theirs is an illegitimate caliphate that has indiscriminately killed innocents, which is a no-no in Islamic ruling and hadith.

That depends entirely on how you define "innocent".

Since you clearly believe in Bukhari Hadith, we can look at instances where Muhammad punished or killed people WE today would see as innocent but he didn't. The most famous example being the Banu Qurayza, a tribe who had 600 men and boys beheaded and the women+children enslaved to be sold in markets because the tribe's leaders allegedly betrayed Muhammad - remember that a non-Muslims sees Muhammad's excuse as absurd (that Gabriel told Muhammad to march on the tribe, something Mo clearly made up).

Do you think collectively punishing a tribe for the actions of its leaders is a good thing? That those people were guilty by association?

Well then I wonder how you feel about Israel collectively punishing Palestinians today for the actions of Hamas.

How about another one - apostasy?

In Islam, someone who openly denounces the religion and preaches against Islam is considered a traitor and the crime is equivalent to treason. This basis has led to all four Sunni madhabs of Islam declaring apostasy punishable by death.

And I'll preempt your arguments here,

I suspect you'll try and say the Bukhari Hadith on Banu Qurayza is fabricated. While that's fine, I could easily point you to other examples such as Muhammad's raids on caravan's leaving Mecca or his command to Khalid ibn Walid to subdue the remaining polytheists in Arabia after Muhammad became de facto ruler of the peninsula.

For the apostasy claim, I suspect you will try and use "no compulsion in religion" to try and declare the apostasy rulings as null and void. What this doesn't cover is the fact that leaving Islam being analogous to treason DOES NOT

/r/bestof Thread Parent Link - np.reddit.com