Venezuela reaches the final stage of socialism: no toilet paper

What? China was a non-factor globally, despite it having a huge chunk of global population, until the 1990s. Russia was not a world power, the USSR was, and that was due to it subsuming a huge chunk of other, formerly capitalist countries with huge military-industrial infrastructure from WWII. It was not a world power economically, ever.

That's completely false. Russia and China both went from agrarian societies to industrial societies, this entailed massive GDP growth.

That = capitalism? Good to know.

Yes, the defining characteristics of capitalism are private ownership of the means of production and trade on markets.

He opposed COMMUNISM, not socialism. He was an avowed socialist. He opposed communism and capitalism. Come on, man, are you really making this old Stalinist argument?

Hitler repeatedly stated that Nazism (National Socialism) was not socialist in the sense of even the Straussian socialists in the early Nazi party.

I guess capitalism is whatever you want it to be, as long as it's bad, right? Mercantilism = capitalism too, now.

Mercantilism is a form of capitalism. This is my point about you guys, just three posts up you are complaining about "not real socialism" - now two posts later you're saying "not real capitalism".

THE KING of a country owned it. The KING. An ABSOLUTE MONARCH. GOVERNMENT PERSON. Private how!?

Read about the Congo. He literally owned it, outside of his crown holdings. It doesn't matter really, it's just one example of dozens of colonial capitalist governments acting murderously. Also, why do you think government action makes it "not capitalist"? Did the Banana Wars fought on behalf of American fruit companies not represent capitalist government acting murderously?

What about the Holocaust. Wasn't that capitalism? It was bad, and anything you want it to be is capitalism, right? Why leave that out? You have zero intellectual honesty, and I kinda think you're a troll, this is silly.

"Not real capitalism", right?

You mean between African tribesmen and British/U.S. slave traders. Nice how you left out the "capitalist" Africans. Wouldn't want to say anything bad about black people, now would we?

That has nothing to do with the discussion, but yes African and Arab slave traders were involved in the human trading between capitalist nations.

I don't have a definition of "real capitalism" in this discussion. I never proffered one. You have decided to make one for me (many of them, actually), and then argue against it. You are literally arguing with yourself. Have fun.

Of course you haven't defined capitalism, it would limit the number of "not real capitalisms" you could argue against.

Capitalism is an economic system and amode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit.

We could just go with Wikipedia...

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