"And are you not getting anything out of Quran when it says to obey the messenger particularly?? You are twisting the words here and there and not getting to the point of reasoning at all that why does Quran asks to obey the messenger and why Allah even sent the messenger if he wasn't even required today. This invalidates Quran itself."
No, I'm just not getting what you're getting from them. I'm nit twisting anything. You're the one twisting the words, saying that "obey the messenger" = "obey heresay about the messenger". Call it what it is. You're not following the messenger. You're following heresay about the messenger.
"And yes i have read most hindu scriptures including Vedas, (although i read vedas in my own tongue - not sanakrit - it's a pretty decent writing) and read judeo-Christian scriptures in Aramaic since it's very similar to arabic. But this is your problem that you blame others and judge and assume things about others that i might not have read anything. Besides that i read zoroastrian scriptures. So Quran doesn't teach judging and suspicion."
Well that's good, you're a lot more well read than the majority of people. The point was that if you see a bunch of barbarians running around cutting peoples heads off, and they're saying the Qur'an, and ahadith tell them to, that's not soemthing that'll make you want to read said scriptures. Why read them, when there are dozens of other scriptures that people aren't using as justification to cut peoples heads off? Put yourself in their shoes.
"You claim i am sunni, i know very well i am not, sunnism teaches taqleed to a fiqh, as you say heresy and following 1 of 4 imams is must in sunnism and i am strongly against that since forever so I would request you to stop judging me and calling me sunni."
And what about the hadith which says if you don't have an Imam, then your Imam is Satan? Or those that tell you that the majority of the Ummah will never agree upon something that is incorrect? Why should I stop calling you a Sunni? You're by definition of the word a Sunni. As am I.
"I am not a recent revert, it's been very long and i know what to call myself and that is definitely not sunni. I do partially agree that sometimes i do see people who blindly follow what their imams say, but don't you put that on me. Because if you read Quran, surah al araaf, it forbids people to associate themselves to sects."
Sunnism isn't a sect. It's refering to your following of the Sunnah of the messenger(s). That's why I say I'm a Sunni too. Just because you don't identify as a Sunni, doesn't mean you're not one. Just like how Christians don't identify as muslims, yet many of them are by definition muslims.
"And why do you think islam is responsible for what a person does? Recently a pope raped a little girl, is christianity responsible for his actions? No. That's what jihad is, fighting with your inner evils. Prophet Muhammad saw really eradicated slavery in a systematic manner, you can't blame Islam for personal whims and wishes, just as you can't blame Christianity for Hitler's personal actions against jews. It's hypocrisy."
If he used Christianity as justification for his raping the girl, then yes, it's responsible at least in part for his actions. My point was that there are no Quraniyoon going around doing these horrible things, but many Sunnis. And I know what Jihad is. I'm not a Christian apologist, or an atheist arguing with a Muslim apologist, I'm a muslim apologist. As for Hitler, he wasn't solely responsible for the holocaust, and he absolutely hated Christianity. As for religion being responsible, most definitely, the people leading the efforts to exterminate the Jews were neo-Germanic pagans, and they felt, due to their beliefs, that the Jews and many others were inferior, and were watering down the strong German race. Somewhat similar to many of the Jihadists of today who think the West, as well as Shi'ites are watering down their ways, making it impermissible to slaughter homosexuals, and apostates.
"And you claim that sunnis believe Allah doesn't test them? As i said i am not sunni, and You don't know what real tests i have gone through so please don't judge."
No, I claim that if traditional Sunnism is the correct way, then many of them haven't been tested to the same extent as non-muslims, or non-traditional Sunni muslims.
"I am questioning you for my interest and you are counter attacking sunnism as your defense. Believe me, it's not helping because then you need to argue with a sunni for that."
You haven't stated how your personal science of authenticating ahadith differs from the Sunnis.
"And no you have assumed again that i have switched biggest hadith with ahadith of the prophet saw. I haven't. I said they compliment Quran. They are an explanation to how and why these verses were revealed."
If they were sure to be authentic, I'd agree with you, but they aren't sure to be authentic.
"You might go to a school where you are on your own but 99% of the schools aren't without a teacher. As i said if teacher wasn't required for us then Allah could have directly revealed Quran upon the common folks."
The point was that you act like I'm not capable of learning on my own. Who's a better teacher than God hinself? Why is it you think I need scholars (men) to explain the explanations provided by messengers (men) as to the explanation provided by God himself? The messenger didn't talk out of his own volition as to what is permissible, or forbidden, that's said in the Qur'an. And so there shouldn't be any ahadith which state what is or isn't permissible. I think Muhammad would agree. And that's exactly who it was revealed to; the common folks.
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