When did Michael Jordan stop being the best player in the league? Who was it after him before Lebron rose to greatness?

This is why I know you're wrong, you think looking at stat sheets proves one player is better then the other. You give too much weight to stats.

Allen Iverson was a below league average efficency when he took his shit team to the finals. Now if efficiency mattered in separating talent as much as like /r/nba likes to pretend it does how did someone below average efficiency take his team to the finals? He is not the only player.

I don't care what your stupid ass stat sheets tell you when any one with any sense will tell you that Kobe was more of a complete offensive package tehn Wade ever was. He was a better shooter he had more moves etc. Its why he was good and better player for longer. Wade relied heavily on his athleticism to get his points. I won't even get into all the carrying calls he didn't get in his hay day. Wade was great, but you're delusinal and bias if you think his prime was anywhere near Kobes and clearly never watched Kobe as evident by everything you're saying.

You're the first person I have ver seen mention Tmac was known as a good defender. When everything I ever remember had him pegged avg or below. Even if he was good he was nowhere near Kobe. Kobe was 1st team defense for 10 years. Lebron has 5 half of that. Tmac wasn't even in the same stratosphere. He never even made a 3rd team all defense. He was an average to below average defender. Please.

Numbers on what? What I said? That MJ was a better inside finisher then Kobe? you made the rest of the assumptions so you find the numbers I never said anything about him finishing better inside then those other guys. But i bet he was close if not even better. Let me know what you find.

I don't know where you got "bias will filter out the misses" shit when you took what I said out of context and put words into my mouth. Go find the stats since you LBJ is a better finisher and the rest of the guys then Kobe.

I know Mj was better finisher inside then kobe.

I really think you should start reading what I am saying "best overall footwork" that means outside the post as well, there is a reason i said that. Because I would say hakeem in the post as well. But everywhere else kobe was better.

You're honestly so bias its hurting. I have never heard even a lebron fan say he is better in the post, when everyone knows hes not. He doesn't have the foot work or proficiency Kobe or MJ had in the post. He is not the same player in the post as them... There percentages aren't lower.. and if they are not by enough of a margin to say lebrons better.

You're lack of understanding of what differentiates the players is showing when you think lebron is more efficient then kobe. Kobe was efficent all his career with a TS% of 56+ while lebron is only a bit higher due to the fact he played the 4 in miami for 4 years.

Which I doubt he'd do in the days of MJ or kobe. He can play the 4 now because hes going up against 6'7s like Draymond and Paul Millsap. or 6'9 taj gibsons. Lets see him try playing the 4 against the primes of DUncan and KG. He wouldn't, and while at his position the 3 he has never been above 50% fg. His TS is skewed a bit by miami years. Not a negative, but for those of you who thinks he is some god at efficiency or kobe was inefficient. You're wrong they were both equal in that regard.

Kobe played when volume shooting was a thing. Go look at ray allens 3pt shooting percentages high 30% or low 40s for his best years. Same with Reggie miller.

3pt specialist averaged high 30% OR low 40%. So kobe at the time was a GREAT 3pt shooter he took some end of the quarter shots etc. and some bad shots(contested) that brought it down.

But he did break the 3pt record and holds it against ray allen. He was consistent 3pt shooter for most of his career and damn reliable at it. You did not want him shooting 3s or anything else. Thats how we know he was good. People will be okay with lebron/MJ shooting 3s and hence gave them room and still do for lebron. Your bias is showing now for not knowing that much because you never saw it and look at stats and think thats enough to mean a>b. lebron has been a streaky 3pt shooter all his career. He can hit some big ones at times, sure but there is a reason he carefully selects his 3pt shots and doesn't take many, he knows hes not that good at them. Specially not as good as kobe was.

Its a famous saying amongst statisticians you should remember "all stats are wrong, some are useful" don't rely on them so heavily.

Find me where these repspected analysts say this. Because /r/nba is dominated by kids who find lebron better, if I had ever in my life found that there were more kobe defenders I wouldn't say that.

You are not worth discussing with when you say stupid ass things like saying having a bit better numbers means he is a better player. And i told you already you're wrong about efficency he isn't that much of a better passer. If lebron is 9.5/10 on passing then mj and kobe are like 8/10 at worst. Its hilarious to me you think he is some god level passer unmatched. you're wrong. Also as for his post passing, you clearly dont know that mj and kobe were great passing out of it to. Lebron may have a slight edge because he is taller hence more vision. But otherwise he is not as good as them in the post.

Since you're clearly a kobe hater and lebron nut hugger also remember kobe has faced the most teams with 50+ wins in his road to finals 24. Mj at 20. While lebron is at 7.. one of whom was this years hawks if you can even count that...

Kobe was also a much better closer in the 4th then lebron has ever been.

And i don't even know how you think Tmac is in the sane tier as those guys. Everything you say makes it seem like you know less and less. And you putting tmac in this discussion is a great example of one.

/r/nba Thread Parent