AT the urinal? I mean, granted, I'm not carrying the Raised Male socialization here, but this strikes me as a big time breach of protocol...

I think that's what I'm saying. While it might be common protocol, I don't think it is in stone-law protocol. But you have to take me with a grain of salt as well, because I never identified as a boy to my knowledge in my past. I've been ducking away from male bathrooms and being insecure in male bathrooms from grade school until I started transition.

Especially in the Navy there was always talking in the bathroom, even with strangers - the showers were open as well. If they didn't look angry, and I didn't perceive them as a physical threat I'd say something if I wasn't also in a grumpy mood.

Protocol... seems to me only to matter while we're early in transition and still nervous, after that.. I dunno. I had the "femme male" socialization as a kid, or rather the "fag bashings" so even when I figured out to "how to" be masculine, it never really fit, and male bathrooms were the worst. So I think it doesn't matter "that much." It is easy to be quite in a male bathroom, but I don't think it is totally necessary.

Honestly I was using a simplistic, two-dimensional situation to illustrate the difference between physical tells and social ones. It wasn't meant to be read into with any depth.

Sorry. I nuke this at times. I just think "tells" and "passing..." are illusions. Not all cis people pass. When I was a raver it would have been super easy to pass a girl with my twink body, and maybe people did see me that way dancing with guys, who knows. I know I've misgendered people in food service before. So those cis people didn't "pass" to me. In those situations I think social blending is more important, it's not being misgendered, it's how one responds to it. Anyway, just rambling now.