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I fail to see what his job prior to becoming MP has to do with his political views? Unless you actually have something from when he was at Pfizer where he openly talked about his right wing political views?

I never said he was right-wing. Where are you getting that from or are you just assuming that as a socialist anyone I don't like is right-wing?

His time at Pfizer and a lobbyist is surely a conflict of interest when he supports PFI programs which have been proven to be failures.

Hey wait a minute! These are the same! I mean you may be referring to of course when Owen Smith suggested having a dialogue with ISIS but then again, suggesting we talk to terrorists rather than shoot them is certainly more of a left wing ideal than right.

Yes but Smith publicly supported more action. “At the moment, ISIL are clearly not interested in negotiating.” You think I'm calling him right-wing, I'm calling him centrist. There is a difference.

that is not an indication of whether he is left or right wing.

Centrist. He's CENTRE-LEFT. Just again, because you seem to have missed it. CENTRE-LEFT.

Attlee also was a self confessed moderate who identified himself as being in the centre of the party.

Yep, he did. And the centre of the party is.... yep, social democracy. Thank you.

Another self confessed moderate: This Party needs to protect itself against the activities of small groups of inflexible political persuasion, extreme so-called left and in a few cases extreme so-called moderates, having in common only their arrogant dogmatism.

Where again, the centre of the Labour Party is social democracy. You are centrist, I am Democratic Socialist. Between us is social democracy. Are you really just going to warp these things to fit your centrist dogma and then blame me? Come on.

Callaghan was Prime Minister for 3 years and spent most of his time trying to string both sides of the party together. No one would actually seriously try to say Callaghan was on the left or right of the party overall.

Let's again use their own words, which you seemed to not do here because Callaghan called himself a socialist numerous times.

  • "Never let me hear anyone say again that a Socialist State cannot provide outlets for those with initiative. The rewards given to ability in the U.S.S.R. at all levels are far greater than those given to the employed in capitalist Britain. I have seen it and it works."

  • "When we reject unemployment as an economic instrument — as we do — and when we reject also superficial remedies, as socialists must, then we must ask ourselves unflinchingly what is the cause of high unemployment. Quite simply and unequivocally, it is caused by paying ourselves more than the value of what we produce. There are no scapegoats."

I mean sure, if that's the labels you define for yourself ignoring all actual definitions and what the men themselves say.

Which I've stuck by. What do you think a social democrat is? Corbyn? And then Dem Soc are full on Stalinists?

No, I think you just need to actually sit down and read a book or something instead of spouting total nonsense which is easily disproved.

Insulting. I've proven my points, you just seem to be deliberately antagonising me by "misreading" and making it seem as though I'm saying that you aren't Labour or that Smith is right-wing. I'm saying neither.

Age clearly doesn't make people wiser. Who did you vote for in 2015? Liz Kendall?

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