We Haha

No. America has not been a failure. Anyone who says that is stupid and ignorant and deserves to be debunked.

Lebanon 1982) This was an intervention by US and French troops requested by the Lebanese government during the civil war that began in 1975. It was a multinational peacekeeping operation, specifically authorized to not engage in combat, so no civilian casualties.

Grenada 1983) It was justified. At the time Grenada was in chaos and had a recent communist revolution. There even was a 24 hour shoot to kill curfew for anyone who left their house. The US invaded and overthrew the communist dictatorship. The result? Although 20-30 civilian casualties were suffered, within a year the country is back in stable position and doing even better. Heck, they even have a holiday to celebrate the event.

Libya 1986) Fair critique, the bombing killed 15-30 civilians.

Tanker war 1987) This was an engagement against Iran in retaliation for attacks on Kuwait oil tanker. Im not aware of any civilian casualties since it was out of reach from any civilain areas.

Panama 1989) It was justified. The US invaded Panama to get rid of Noriega, a brutal dictator of Panama. Noriega literally declared war on the US and attacked US servicemen men, including killing one, shooting another, beating up one more and raping his wife. Noriega also refused to step down when a democratic election elected Guillermo Endara, instead having him beat on the streets. I will admit; the US used harsh force, up to 500 civilians were killed. It was certainly a day where innocent people were caught in the crossfire, but it was also a day freedom and democracy was restored and a brutal murderous dictator was removed.

Gulf war 1990) This was justified. Iraq were the aggressors and brutally annexed Kuwait, the US led a coalition to liberate Kuwait, which was very much successful that even Kuwait have messages of gratitude towards the coalition.

Iraq sanctions 1990s-2000s) The claim these sanctions killed 500k mostly children Iraqis is a well debunked myth.

Somalia 1992 to 1995) This was due to warlords causing chaos in the country with countless somalis on the verge of starvation. The UN request US intervention so their workers could send humanatarian aid without being hijacked. The mission was somewhat successful, and several warlord high ranking associates were apprehended. The intervention killed 300 Somalis, most being combatants. Justified intervention.

Bosnia 1994 to 1995) Justifed. This was to stop ethnic cleansing. 20-30 civilian casualties were suffered, but it saved countless thousands more lives.

Haiti coup 1994 to 1995) This was an operation to dispose a military regime installed by a coup prior. Up to 300 Haitian people died, most combatants. It was justified.

Yugoslavia 1999) Justifed. The US and NATO intervention was set forth by Yugoslavia's genocide and ethnic cleansing of thousands of Kosovar Albanians with countless more displaced which could have destabilized the region. The Humans Rights Watch estimated that 500 civilians were killed during the intervention, but it was a justified intervention, and had it not occurred who knows how many thousands more Kosovar Albanians would have been killed.

Afghanistan 2001 to 2021) This was in response to 9/11, the Taliban harbored the enemies of America and thus got invaded. It later turned into a war against the oppressive Taliban regime and the excecution of the war was underwhelming, but it was justified nontheless. Around 46k civilians died during the war, but the vast majority were killed by the Taliban. And although not the goal of the invasion, millions of Afghan girls were able to attend school, thousands of women went on to universities and jobs outside the home, minorities like the Shia Hazara population enjoyed rights and safety, and soccer stadiums were no longer being used for public executions often unjustly.

Yemen 2002 and ongoing) Justifed. Yemeni government requested US drone strike campaign against terrorists in the country. Up to 2k terrorists have been killed with 100-150 civilian casualties.

Iraq 2003 to 2011) Unjustified. The number often stated of 1 million Iraqis killed is misleading. It was concluded from one study that also counts military and terrorist deaths, not just Iraqi civilians. And the general number of 1 million is likely exaggerated.

Pakistan 2004 to 2018) Justifed. US intervened through drone strikes and 3k-5k terrorists were killed including 75 leaders. There were 100-900 civilian casualties. However, studies done have concluded the US drone strikes largely reduced terrorism and the lethality of the attacks. Plus, studies done by Aryana Institute for regional research and advocacy, a Pakistani independent research group who are one of the few groups that dares enter into the federally administered tribal areas affected by the drone strikes, has concluded that civilian casualty numbers can be falsely increased because after an attack Taliban block off the area, bury all the dead, and claim them all innocent.

Somalia 2007 and ongoing) The US intervened in Somalia in 2007 which is still ongoing now. It is primarily through drone strikes for counterterrorism in the area and requested by the Somali government. Up to 2k terrorists were killed with 19-100 civilian casualties, but it was justified.

Many people need to understand this regarding US drone bombing campaigns, this not only applies to Somalia but also as I mentioned Pakistan and Yemen. People forget that who we're targeting with drone strikes are actual terrorists, mass murders who use violence against civilian targets to achieve political goals. it's also important to remember what the alternatives to drone strikes are. Aerial bombardment, artillery shelling and soldiers on the ground. These are MUCH less discriminate methodologies, and they result in many more civilian deaths than drone strikes do. Not only is this the method that the US would have used in the past, but the Pakistani, Yemeni, and Somali military continues to use them today. When Pakistan/Yemen/Somalia military knows a village or area is a Taliban or Al Shabaab strong hold, they just shell the village or area off the map. Many more innocent lives and property are lost in the process.

The only option would be to leave Yemeni/Pakistani/Somali governments to deal with terrorists in their area alone, but that would result in much more civilian deaths and much more dirty operations.

It’s not perfect, but people need to understand this, American drone programs are by far the best option to deal with militant terrorism. There will always be civilian causalities, but they are the most accurate and discriminate method you’ll find.

Libya 2011) This was an intervention by NATO and the US during the Libyan civil war, and Libya being a damaged state now puts a bad taste around it, but it was certainly justified. To understand why read this excellent article on it. (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/04/12/everyone-says-the-libya-intervention-was-a-failure-theyre-wrong/)

Iraq 2014 to 2021) Fair critique. It was a coalition led by the US against ISIS through airstrikes and operations. Over 70k ISIS fighters were killed with 6k civilians deaths.

Syria 2014 and ongoing) This was in response to ISIS in Syria, up to 9k ISIS fighters were killed, but up to 3.8k civilians were killed due to coalition airstrikes and operations, so valid critique.

Libya 2015 to 2019) This was in response to ISIS in Libya, up to 1k ISIS fighters were killed and thousands of ISIS targets were destroyed which drove them off Libyan territory by 2019. The intervention had no civilian casualties, and it was justified.

Atleast the guy admitted that operation observant compass and operation ocean sheild were justified. Either way, analyzing this, the vast majority of US interventions and wars since 1980 till 2022 have been justified.

And also, no, America is not responsible for 3 million civilian deaths since 1980, thats an awfully inaccurate number. Since 1980, at most America is responsible for 500k-700k civilian deaths, most being unintentional and by instability America caused. And a number of them were from justified interventions that saved much more lives.

I must say, this really makes me realise how bad the Iraq war of 2003 was. The vast majority of civilian deaths on America since 1980 are from Iraq. From a single failed intervention so much went wrong, just tragic.

Finally, I must also mention this. Do people know how many lives America has saved since 1980? Countless tens of millions. To name a few examples, the US PEPFAR program against HIV/AIDS saved 20 million lives, enabled 2-3 million babies to be born HIV-free, and provided critical care to over 7 million orphan and vulnerable children. Or even the US program named the presidents malaria initiative to combat malaria in Africa managed to save 7 million lives, including 2 million children, and prevent hundreds of millions of malaria infections. Or even the fact that America is the largest humanitarian donor in the world managing to save millions each year by providing food, medicine, and water to countries in need.

Thus, I now must ask, has America really been a failure of a sole superpower?

/r/Brohdayoh Thread