[D] Friday Off-Topic Thread

Right, "no brainwashing" is deontological, not consequentialist.

Consequentialist... meaning that, if tomorrow a Superintelligent AI was able to change all the values of humanity, to the very last one, into a value of not-existing, and then destroyed humanity to fulfil that value, it would have done nothing wrong.

The reason why I bring up brainwashing is that I think it's difficult to visualise the condition of having your values changed, as it happens so rarely in reality, but it's a common trope in fiction. When we see it in fiction, it's usually presented as an evil, meaning that authors of fiction, at the very least, think value-changing is evil... evil means bad, bad means that it decreases value satisfaction, and that means that there must be a value against it.

Another example that comes to mind is necrophilia. If a necrophiliac that has access to bodies has intercourse with them (to be clear, after the autopsy, or when it isn't needed, and they don't have sex with alive people later, and nobody finds out), we think of it as an immoral action. Not just disgusting, wrong. We think that it violates the wishes of the deceased, even if, technically speaking, the deceased have no wishes. You could argue that it's a case of the living projecting their wishes, but I ask you, what would you expect the reaction to be, besides disgust, if a necrophiliac was found having "sex" only with people that had declared their will to be sexed after their death?

I think you would expect people to be extremely grossed out but accepting the fact that the wishes of the deceased are not being infringed.

No, because now you're changing more than just people's values, you're actually messing with millions of happy homosexual relationships, which is clearly harmful.

You could probably have extrapolated from context that my question was meant to ask what your opinion would be if the only appreciable change in value satisfaction was the one I mentioned, as it would happen if we preserved the total quantity and happiness of relationships. I'm going to extrapolate that if you'd answered this question, you would have said that yes, you do find it equally favourable. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

They care about keeping caring because their caring is itself valuable.

This is precisely my point.

But I don't care about the former. I don't value their value of their mindless, pointless hate.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/tPvbV4OfLbgcERXPv722tqo9FVQYUwAewJeWW2EoGDMpvg-8TcnGvvHJGWLrrByAa0jxB6753tZHwBDVTpFo7oTyM_6Zcbf9Lnf3RTQeDmdWcltNlf3s1DvGSg6kPSUD3kQFdA89

/r/rational Thread Parent