[Christians only] You are justified by works

The Bible gives you the verse "so and so and was justified by faith apart from works" and "if Abraham was justified by works he has something to boast about but not before God"; you then interpret this to mean "there is never ever any justification for a good work done in faith".

To counteract this I offer you the Bible's own explanation of its own verse, by pointing to James, and you say:

You're explanation for Romans 4 amounts to telling me it doesn't say what it plainly does.

ie. "My explanation is better than the explanation that the Bible itself gives me, and my definition of faith is better than the definition of faith that the Bible itself gives me. I will follow my interpretation instead of the interpretation the Bible gives me."

If that's your attitude why even bother follow the Bible? You may as well be following the Quran for all the good it does you. For, Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult. (Jesus, from 1 John 5:3). So Jesus Himself has told that if you refuse to keep his commandments, you do not truly love Him.

The only way you can maintain your explanation of Romans 4 is to, as you say, "destroy" and "shoot down" the verses from James and pretty much the rest of Romans... what will you say at judgement? "Lord, Lord, I never followed you or obeyed you or made the attempt, instead I just believed-- but look at this verse in Romans 4 which proves I'm justified by faith alone!"

Perhaps Jesus will introduce you James and then James can tell you: "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone!"

And having confirmed this Jesus will say:

"depart from Me, I never KNEW you" and call you lawless. Why?

... Because you used your "faith" to destroy the law instead of to uphold the law per Romans 3:31 Do we, then, use this faith to nullify the law? Far from it!

Philippians 3:

Here again you tear apart the Bible:

But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.

(One of Paul's good works was to sacrifice what was dear to him.)

Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

(Paul is saying that he sacrificed all that was dear to him, and counted the things dearest to him as pure garbage, in order that he may inherit Christ. That he is self-sacrificial, persevering, and being willing to suffer, in order to receive Christ, which is very different from your attitude of "faith alone")

and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by FAITH

Not having his own righteousness in the flesh, (ie. apart from God), which is from works of the law, but that righteousness which is through faith in Christ, from God by faith... the kind of faith that is completed by good works (James) such as the good works Paul mentioned above of self-sacrifice, perseverance etc.

Notice again how you're interpretation forces you to take isolated verses which ignore or destroy the verses before it? Even here, your interpretation causes Philippians 3:9 to destroy Philippians 3:7-8 and ignore the definition of faith that the Bible itself gave you in James.

I will warn you right now: ... actually, no, I won't warn you. This is what Luke says about people who refuse to follow God:

""He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" (Luke 16:31)

You have not listened to the Bible or the prophets or the apostles, and therefore you are not even convinced by Jesus rising from the dead... you are not convinced by the Jesus who specifically commanded you to obey his commandments...

/r/TrueChristian Thread Parent