I've come to the conclusion that nobody but GLF and people who echo his exact phrasing are abolitionists in his mind ;)

Well, yes...my experience is there's a very narrow definition for GLF's Abolitionist Approach, and little tolerance for disagreement or challenges..there's just a wee bit of hubris in believing you're 100% right 100% of the time!

I would agree that probably every group 'helps' in some way - even the groups I disagree with most strongly 'do the right thing sometimes', but I have trouble when they also hurt, rather than help, and more-so when they hurt more often than they help.

Is there a point when their value or helpfulness is outweighed by their harm? I guess that's a point we all have to decide for ourselves.

But the kind of self congratulating, divisive attacks that seem to be the majority of GLF's critiques of every organization that isn't his own are counter productive.

Yes, that's my biggest concern with GLF. His approach can be very paralyzing. I know a number of activists who used to 'do stuff' who don't now, as GLF followers, because they vilify some aspect of nearly all activism, and that becomes a justification for inaction.

At the same time, I find many of DxE's actions to be counter-productive, and ill-thought. The 'Boycott Veganism' piece doesn't even define veganism....it's intentionally nebulous in order to rationalize itself. Once the meaning of veganism is known (and thankfully defined on the right in this subreddit), most of the arguments fall apart.....and that's not a very honest way to discuss some of the legit concerns, like how there is a tendency to limit veganism to foods, and as a consumerist mentality. Yes, our spending needs to change, but the understanding behind why we're spending differently also needs to be ingrained in vegans - and that's a very important and legitimate argument....but it's lost in the hoopla of the piece....

Same with yelling outside of Whole Foods. It doesn't make for an environment conducive to discussion (which is what is needed!), and induces hostility in passersby. GLF might have a point that it's street theatre, and not really direct action. (And people who've been in the movement 10+ yrs have a very different interpretation of 'direct action'. 10 years ago, this was just 'protesting'. Now it's 'direct action'..?) IT'S NOT DIRECT ACTION, IT'S PROTESTING! (hehehehe...)

And I don't say these things to have actions stop - I sincerely want to see as many vegans out there doing public activism as much as possible...but I feel our movement is important, and deserving of more thought, and more than impulsive and reactionary activism...and hopefully by discussing these things, we can learn and figure out how to get people to consider our message and expand their consideration to the rest of the species we share this planet with more effectively..

Weeee! =)