Have you seen any violence in the prison?
I saw a prisoner get killed by a guard, shot in the head for punching some guy. The guard fired two warning shots and then shot him in the back of the head accidentally. The guard claims he was trying to shoot him in the leg.
How do you get along with the guards?
A lot of them don’t like me because of my case. A few of them say, “Hey Pliers, did you bring your toolbox?” I get along with them as long as they want to get along with me.
Do you get many visitors?
No. There is a couple, a husband and wife, name’s Smith. Christian couple from Fresno. He’s a licensed minister. They initially were involved in the juvenile-offender programme. Around the late 1970s, they shifted their attention to the condemned, and started visiting Death Row prisoners. They visit me infrequently.
What do you talk about with them?
Whatever we want to talk about. I’m not religious. They don’t push religion on me. [Eyes well up with tears] They’re just really good people. See, I’m not an animal. We all got our problems. Look at you. You have big feet. Observant, aren’t I?
Yeah. What are your extracurricular activities?
I’ve gone through four to eight books a week during the time I’ve been here, plus all of the law books. I leafed through the California law books and I find stuff my attorneys didn’t find on criminal cases.
There are collectors of serial-killer memorabilia, and your art is highly prized among them. How did you get started in all this?
I just started making greetings cards that were interesting. One of the first cards had a picture of a convict. And when you pulled a tail at the bottom of the card, his tongue would come out, eyes would change colour, pecker would come out. Next one was a variation of that, a picture of just a regular guy you would see on the street. You would open up his trenchcoat and the guy would have a humungous erection with a string at the end of it with a sign that said “Hi!” It was just something to do at first, but then I decided to make money so I could buy things in prison and wouldn’t have to beg off people on the outside. The prison eventually busted me for unauthorised dealing. Capitalism at work. They gave me all this celebrity. You might as well work it.
Are you friends with other celebrity-types here, like [child-rapist and murderer] Richard Allen Davis?
The prisoners here blame him for the ‘three strikes…’ law [America’s bizarre ‘three strikes and you’re out’ law rules that a citizen faces
a potential 25-years-to-life prison sentence if
they commit three serious crimes, but has seen men convicted of petty crimes such as burglary facing life in jail]. He’s asking for it one way or another. Polly Klaas [Davis’ victim], a young girl. [Sighs] I’ve talked to Davis a couple of times. He’s an old-style convict.
What about the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez?
Ramirez used to be a neighbour of mine. He’s in the hole for flag-waving [Simulates opening a trenchcoat]. He flashed some female employee. They caught him selling his souvenirs to someone who’s dealing them for him on the outside.
Why did Ramirez flash the guard?
I think he’s done it a couple times. He has no control over his sexual impulses. When we were neighbours, we never really talked much at
all. What am I going to talk about with this guy? I once traded my autograph for his.
Do you have any other serial-killer friends in prison?
Randy Kraft. He was in my yard. He would get his hair cut out there. And I would pick it up from the ground and give it to one of my collector friends on the outside, and he would sell it. In return, these guys on the outside would send me smut magazines or stamps. Randy found out I was giving away his hair. He doesn’t talk to me any more.
How did that make you feel, losing a friend?
We used to be friendly. He stopped talking to me around a year ago. I don’t blame him. Maybe he overreacted a little bit. Whatever turns him on.
Any other serial-killer stories?
Randy Kraft, Bill Bonin, Douglas Clark and me, you have a good bodycount there. Some collector had four aces from a deck of cards and wanted us all to sign the cards. But Randy wouldn’t sign, not even for 0. He didn’t like any publicity. Somebody wrote a book about his case. He sued the writer.
How much money did you make selling your wares?
Not very much. Most expensive cards were . Retailer took 40 per cent. Started roughly in 1983 and ended in 98. I was under investigation. Supposedly the authorities got word that a local principal was smuggling in kiddie porn to me. That’s what led to them finding out about my business. They charged me with two things: running a business and circumventing trust procedures, which is kind of like laundering money. At most, I made 0.
Be honest with me. Do you have any remorse for killing those girls?
Yes. Yes. Yes. How many times do I have to tell you? Nobody is going to believe it. I’m not happy I got caught.