And multiple people said something about your use of the word objective so I'm clearly not the only one who apparently needs reading comprehension (thanks for that BTW, real mature).

I don't know where you get off with insinuating that I'm immature when you're the one who undermined me by saying that I was underage.

You came here to ask which is objectively worse in terms of addiction, but it seems like you don't like the answer...

I don't like the answer? Seriously? Literally all I have said since you brought up the fact kratom withdrawals can be physical (which I thought was a valid point) was that empirical evidence such as the fact there is a sub for quitting kratom but no equivalent for coffee was not enough for an objective perspective on this argument. Now, I have not made up my mind on which is the worst out of the two.

Caffeine withdrawals are quite physical in some situations. so I think it depends largely on how people use kratom. I did heed throw's advice, and checked out r/quittingkratom. It seemed like a large majority of these people were using kratom throughout the day when that truly doesn't appeal to me at all. I was hoping that users of r/kratom could compare and contrast concrete evidence here on whether replacing kratom with coffee was really all that dangerous but I have clearly expected too much from this sub.

I still remain unconvinced that replacing those 2 cups of coffee with kratom is the objectively worse option. And the empirical evidence mentioned here does nothing to change that. For every account of the horrors of kratom, I can find a glowing review on it.