If the uk went onto a basic income of £1,500 PP.PM. would you still work and what are your views on this idea? Help a "special" guy understand.

I'm sorry to hear about your business, that must have been really shit to go through.

I think we're both a bit off in our assumptions about each other.

I'm a 32 year old IT manager in Edinburgh. Aside from a brief dalliance with communism when i was about 18 I'm actually just left of centre politically - or I suppose I'm what used to pass for the centre 10 years ago. (IT is pretty Guardian-ista and cardigan-y in general. We've got one young lad who is lefty with suspected GamerGate sympathies, and the CEO is just to the right of Mussolini, but that's it.)

I did a useless degree in English Lit back when I was a young, stupid stoner, and although I don't really regret it anymore I had to work my fucking arse off to get even a hint of stability. I've signed on for one week of my entire life, and never asked anything of anybody.

I even did a brief stint for in Aberdeen City Council housing department, so I do know how frustrations with tenants can spill over into being judgmental and right wing.

But I was raised poor. Like, proper poor. My great-grandad lost his factory job in the 70s and told all his kids that because he was a veteran they should never feel bad about taking from the government - and with that he condemned generations of his progeny to half a century and counting on the dole. (To be honest most of my lot are thick rather than lazy - you're probably better off without them fucking up some workplace.)

I was brought up in the worst fucking small town council estates you can imagine. But somehow, me, my sisters, most of my cousins all made it out. We got degrees when they were free or affordable, and are now all doing OK and live good lives.

But the family that stayed didn't do half as well. Every single one of their kids is unemployed or worse. What's the difference in a single generation? In the 80s and 90s people on benefits, for all their cultural problems, had decent, stable lives. These days families are run fucking ragged with work programmes and sanctions and the ground constantly shifting under their feet. They don't have the time or mental energy to raise their kids properly.

I think you know that hardly anybody is having a gay old time of it really. Life is pretty shit in general and hardly anyone has luxury money at the end of the month.*

But if you restrict welfare you're not just harming the workshy, you're harming their kids - who've done nothing wrong except being born into the wrong family. You're making their early years unstable and full of stress and resentment. They end up fucked in the head and of no use to any employer. Like Hans Rosling says, welfare can be demonstrated to be the engine of progress in a society - and this is exactly why.

But in the end, it comes down to what we've been arguing about - who do you care about? Just you and yours or everybody?

*Full disclosure - I'll admit to being one of the lucky few - a childless professional. Not that I'm rolling in it or anything.

/r/unitedkingdom Thread Parent