Ok, but do we need a lot of industrialization in order to have advanced industrialization? Can't we have both advanced industrialization as well as a lot less industrialization? Because it certainly seems like , if we don't drastically decrease our amount of industrialization and live a more sustainable way if life, that we will get ecological collapse and mass death.

I mean, that's the sad thing about how this convo goes so often, where both pro industrialists and anti industrialists each site the fear of mass death and accuse the other side of wanting genocide. That obviously isn't a productive way for anyone to go about talking about things.