So whan I high five someone I'm attacking them?

There is a clear need to consider intent and strenght when we talk about violence. After all we all know that violence can be psychological and verbal also, so by your logic talking to children should also be forbidden for their sakes.

I think we should be reasonnable and look at what is implied in what people think of corporal punishment on a case by case basis. Because all of it is not clear abuse and that's why each side cannot reach any conclusion with this debate. They are clearly not talking of the same thing.

I generally agree that corporal punishment in most of its forms is repulsive and am totally against it. I mean it's in the name "corporal punishment": the goal is to physically punish and thus imply pain. That's why I approve those that outlaw it. I mean We don't event beat up our prisonners anymore so why should it be okay to do it when children misbehave? And by that I mean any punishment whose goal is to imprint a lesson on kids through their negative physical experience. Spanking, canning, slapping you name it.

But on the other hand we should stop pretending that there is no physicality between adults, the same way we should be permitted to pass no-verbal physical messages to our kids.

After all I remember that my brother always walked me from school when I was little and as I always spaced out he had the habit to keep his hand on my shoulder to signal me when I should stop ou when I should pay attention. So yes he tightened his hand around my shoulder but he didn't do it hard, and the intent wasn't malicious. The goal was just to quilckly snap me out of my toughts and then he would explain what's the matter was to me if it wasn't obvious.

The same way he would slapped my hand away when I was trying to reach the pan: he didn't do it meanfully, he just needed a quick way to keep me away from the danger and to turn toward him and then he would explain what I did wrong to me. As a teenager my baby brother had picked the bad habit to chew loudly so every time he did it I would poke him on the cheek playfully just to pass a message. All of the examples above were always done with no harm intended and softly enough that it never hurt, the same way I play-punch my friends when they say something funny or I shove them lightly when they they are too close to me.

Contrast that with the way my father used to smack us around, sometimes once but more often at least three or four times, when we misbehaved and even gave chase if we tried to get away, he'd do it until he thought we had learn our lesson (like what? I could never remember after that because I was too angry) but we cried so he thought that we were genuinely sorry. Here there was clear violence.

The same way, my mother would scream at us for hours if she got frustrated with us, she would spew every obscenities and insults she would think of at the moment until she was finished (again I never understood what was the criteria that indicated her being finished). And again we would feel powerless and angry and just humiliated because we couldn't even stop crying.

And then they would always come to us later, when we were still angry but they would always tell us that it was for our own good and that we needed to learn and that they were sorry. But they never really apologized and they would always do it again.

That is clear violence, both of it. And both had negative impact on all three of us.

That's why this whole debate is annoying me because you always get the one who was spanked or whatever and proudly claim that it never had an impact on him and that he deserved it when this is clear abusee talk and every scientific study say its wrong. And on the other hand you always get the one that says that all touching is bad and as long as you have no physical contact with your children there are no problem when an abuser and poor parent won't let forbidden corporal punishment get in the way of his abuse. But their are happy to ignore psycological abuse because well you can't touch your children so the job is done...

Anyway that was just my two cents