Nissan unveils new power system where electric cars feed energy back into the grid

Ha! I thought it was more like a rail-riding hooker-bum fell off a train in the middle of the woods somewhere and crawled to help after various wild animals had gnawed at and pissed on her...

I was around for a few meetings of a neighborhood being designed that we develop in.. ...build houses. It has ~100 houses in it, average size ~4500sq ft. It has a small area on it, not a full sized lot but... something... where all the utilities and such run into.

Has a small substation, where/how all the waste is handled, etc. Of course it's hunkered in the back and hidden by trees and bushes and misc but...

I suggested at one of the earlier meetings setting it up as a bit of an advanced microgrid sort of thing, advanced waste management, etc. The board was interested and, knowing I'd do any/all research myself and for free.. told me they'd look at what I came up with before the final decision was made.

So I got out there, googled, magazines, etc etc. Had a list of requirements as drawn up from the original plan (what ultimately got implemented.. ..for various reasons I can come back to).. ...and, put together my best effort with it. It was a fun 'project'. I learned a lot. The idea was that basically this ~100 house subdivision was a mini-city in & of itself of sort, as many/most are. Had its own electrical system that tied into the main grid but otherwise existed within itself, had its own waste processing facilities, each house is both large-enough and 'expensive enough' to justify at least the potential for a 'more complex' infrastructure.. ..with customers potentially likely to pay for it if the whole thing was packaged, marketed, and priced correctly.

So, I figured it was worth a shot and... ... this being ~3? years ago? I ... ...the 'tech' is there, .. has been for 'a while' more or less, but the 'packaging' of it isn't. I forget the numbers now, and would have to go back to my notes on it to pull up the semantics but.. .. the neighborhood association costs were going to go up something like $10,000 a house, the costs per house just to be capable of tying into it were going to go up something like $5k per house, and then, depending on how the customer / homebuyer wanted their part developed... panels, battery back-up, personalized intra-house systems controlling it, etc... ...anywhere from $0 (nothing installed, standard b.s. grid-tie) to... really, the sky was the limit but upper levels were coming in around $50k... but that was for like 3 or even 5 days of battery backup, full solar, ability to plug in generators beyond that, geothermal systems, and a few other things, etc etc.

The waste processing part was going to ... well, i looked into an onsite biogas plant.. ..it would've produced something like 25% of the estimated power the neighborhood would use, would reduce the waste footprint drastically... and, well, all of it would end up paying for itself easily within 5 years.

but, a few things: 1) the bank financing the development had a major customer of theirs go bankrupt and it tightened their cash like crazy, another bank brought in to balance that was shut down for scandalous events during the '08 recession follow-up and 2) it was deemed that even if that wasn't going on, it would increase the price premium for each house beyond what the market for such houses / sizes / location / etc would support. and, if the entire project had been approached from the get go with more of an environmental/green theme, then it would make more sense.. ..and, well, some of the board are also builders/developers of the neighborhood, so the conversations still go on, and 'green elements' are definitely incorporated into the houses more now than they would've been just via 'things learned' but... ...

...but, the idea that the entire thing would be a closed community, connected to itself, basically.. or literally... a microgrid in & of itself, ... ... but, my conclusion in looking at it, talking to homebuyers (we've since developed nearly 50 of the houses in the neighborhood since.. and the neighborhood has since expanded into 'phase II' (it's final phase which was '50/50' on whether it even would depending on interest) with an additional 25 lots... so, we've developed personally nearly 40% of the neighborhood..

...i've gotten to know the home buyers well, most are sold under contract.. we've done a few specs but I loathe doing specs.. ..so much stuff ends up getting changed, the risk, and just... ...anyway.. ..the aptitude of the home buyers in this neighborhood-type just ... ...'isn't there' for it. It'd either need to be done more on the back-end central-grid point, or it'd need an update in interface-type of equipment such that... ...well, the analogy I came up with was: there were mp3 players before the ipod.. ..then out came the ipod and it all changed. the average person could now 'get it'. same thing with touchscreen phones... ...there were 'smart devices' pdas, etc before (blackberry, windows mobile, various things from sony and nokia, etc) ... but the iphone changed it all.

I was thinking the Tesla battery power station deal could/would be that 'ipod/iphone' interface-type... .... would really 'tie it all together' in a way that even the average housewife could use and would even want to.. ..like, a sort of 'bragging rite' or something even among their other suburbanite friends in the surrounding neighborhoods.. ..and they probably would, but the novelty would quickly wear off I think and.. ...well, in the end? it's all just kinda-sorta gotta be done more on the back end, on the grid, at the sub-stations, and ... ...'out of sight / out of mind' basically.

People like funking with that sort of stuff.. ...until they don't. now, jump ahead to the same system tie-in types allowing for electric cars... (pretty straight forward).. ..and then bidirectionality of electric cars per the cars acting as grid back-up / grid-hosts to the other neighbors and.. ...sure, great! ... ...but, within limits and, ultimately, at 'great' expense to the home/car owners. possibly if the limitation of battery lifespans were drastically stretched out.. ...or if Tesla came out with like a 10yr/100k infinite recycling deal on their batteries,.. like automanufacturers (Kia?) doing/advertising the 10k/100k mile powertrain warranty deal like 10 years ago? ...whereby you get free battery replacement within that period.. ...and, thus/so, the number of cycles on your cells really doesn't matter as long as you get it all serviced regularly... ...

...and i see it as moving that way (if it isn't already? I haven't looked that closely into tesla's new programs for such things).. but, just, wear & tear. and, it's kinda like materials for a house: 20% of the total cost is lumber, 20% is plumbing/electrical/etc ... 20% lot, and 40% labor. there's a lot more that would go into this than just the batteries' lifecycle-count.

I just don't really see where it's economically viable, really needed, nor really wanted in the end. ...and if/when/as it is done, it be done in such a way that, by & large, the average consumer just doesn't have to think about it. ....until Apple & Tesla team-up and create an Apple-designed interface overlapping an iMac/ipod/iphone simple device that it can all tie into.. ...then google coming in on the backend with some sort of android-like opensource competition that creates a bit more flexible of a system tying into a wider medley of suppliers, and allowing for more... ...but, even that would have to create a sort of standardization on the grid-side, and, a sort of standardization / packaging on the house-side tying into it.

i think it could get there, and probably will in one form or another... ... ...and should get there.. a 2009 report done by some gov't department that slips the mind stated that (even with the recession, and even with multiple more being taken into account), it was estimated that the amount of sq footage under roof, pavement/asphalt, etc in the US in 2010 is estimated to be one-third what will be under roof & pavement in 2050. and estimates put that at even sooner. so, everything that's out there now... houses, buildings, roads, parking lots, etc ... is 1/3rd what will be in 34 years. and follow-ups to this show that we're in stride with that.

so, there's a whole lot coming... a shitload of development on its way continually over the next few decades.. .. and doing it in a much more sustainable and integrative way certainly makes one helluva lot of sense... ...so, research the hell out of it! design systems! evolve them! etc! yay Nissan! ...and it'll allow for back-end upgrade'ability on already-existing ones where it may not be the easiest thing to integrate.. ..but, imo, it still isn't there.. ..yet. and, i question if it ever really will be totally. ...because, it still just doesn't entirely make sense from an economics perspective. centralization just makes too.much.sense. It's faster, easier, and 'cheaper' to integrate, update, and change (singular project costs may be more for 1 substation vs 1 house, but it'd be 'dozens' to hundreds to thousands of houses tying into one substation... collective, they cost a helluva lot more.. ...granted, costs are also spread out too but.. ...still)

I don't know. for now? I just watch. keep my eyes open, take note of things that jump out at me, and.. ..watch/see how it evolves. who knows.. ..with 'what's coming' there'll certainly be plenty of opportunities for implementing at least one of them.. ..and 'just one' of them can be quite lucrative. ..lucrative enough to make the whole 'watch/see' pay for itself.. ..beyond just personal interest, curiosity, and fascination.

/r/TheGrid Thread Parent Link - telegraph.co.uk