Not as big of an investment as some people on here, but... I'm in!

When investing in most industrial companies, aren't you indirectly speculating on oil price, copper price,...?

No. When investing in a profitable business, I have understood how its business model works and how it makes money and why it is likely to continue doing so.

How does that make my point not apply? When you're investing in an airline, "understanding their business model" means understanding their close relation to the oil price. That means that by investing in airlines you're speculating to a certain degree on that price. I don't think anything about this simple fact is debatable. You think Airline's stock recently going through the roof is because people think "Oh gee, I hear they have hired some new and talented pilots!"? No, it's the direct reaction to and speculation on the falling oil price. Nothing else.

Anyway, we can save us the time here and just agree to disagree. You seem set on the need to divide up the terms "speculation" and "investment", and mind you, that's your personal idea, it's not the one you'd find in standard definitions. In your first reply to me, you said:

Wikipedia's definition isn't wrong but you are misreading it to mean "bet that this financial instrument will increase in price". This is speculation and it is not "putting money with the expectation of capital appreciation".

I'm not misreading it in any way. I don't know what you want "capital appreciation" to mean, but it means exactly what I implied it does: an increase in the value of something. That something can be a stock, a house, a bunch of land, bitcoin, or any other asset.

I don't see how Wikipedia could be any more clear in their (rightfully) general definition of the word "investment". If you want to say that Wikipedia and every textbook definition of the word are wrong, fine, but be aware of that.

/r/Bitcoin Thread Link -