It's saying that if you believe that if you believe that Umar did not use the Prophet PBUH as a means because you think that the Prophet PBUH is dead, then your understanding is dead.
but rather supports the permissibility of both tawassul and the fact that the anbiya AS are alive in their graves.
No. The hadith states that Umar didn't make tawassul of the Prophet after he passed away. He rather made tawassul through Ibn Abbas who was alive. So where are you getting here that tawassul of Prophet is permitted when Umar didn't even do that?
It's a different life. He is alive
Correct. But we're debating on what extra previligies he has as a dweller of barzakh.
he can hear you when you are near his grave,
Correct.
** and our deeds are presented to him**
Source?
regards to him being alive in the grave, such as the prohibition of marrying his wives after he died or him (and all prophets AS) leaving no inheritance.
Bad argument. What makes you think that his wives aren't marrying because he's alive? Or that he didn't leave inheritance because he was alive? From your logic, the wives of any martyr should not be able to marry anyone anymore because their husbands are alive.
You mentioned an-Nawawi and Ibn Hajr, who were Ash'aris
Wrong. This is a common misconception among laymen. Ibn Hajar and Imam Nawawi are not Asharis, rather they have ashariyya influences on their metholodies. One of the most distinguishing character of an Ashari is that he takes Aql > Revelation. But both Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar refrained from doing that. They were ashariyya in the sense of how they interpreted some Hadith regarding Sifat of Allah.
And maybe you should word your posts better because from your posts, it does sound like you were downplaying Imam an-Nawawi and Ibn Hajr.
Not true. I even wrote an analysis of Rafa Yadain hadeeth and used Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar's criticism against some narrators. Just because I didn't openly praise them every second of my comment here, doesn't mean I downplay them. I respect them as much as I respect Ibn Qayyim, if not more.
an-Nawawi is a leading figure in the Shafi'i school, the second largest Islamic school of fiqh. What he states is largely considered part of the school.
Yes. And I don't see what you're trying to say, cuz I respect him a lot. His contribution to hadith is immense. But even then, if we find evidences where he erred, then we reject those mistakes.
You've only cited Ibn Taymiyah.
And I can cite tons more who hold the same view. It's not like Ibn Taymiyyah amde up those arguments.
** Even among the contemporary scholars,** only Salafis reject tawassul
Not surprised. If one of the 73 sects is the right one, and they voice an opinion that's rejected by the remaining 72, then I don't see the problem. But this is irrelevant here.
So, again, where is this "majority of scholars" that rejects tawassul?
I was talking about classical scholars. Not contemporaries. Because most people of this sub easily reject contemporary scholars by pointing out their faults etc.
In fact, scholars have cited IJMA' on tawassul being permissible. You don't cite ijma' if a minority is in agreement.
And HERE is your grave misunderstanding regarding the field of tawassul. There are 4 kinds of tawassul. ANd even tawassul through the Prophet is of 2 types. The halal type is when tawassul of the Prophet is made in the sense of following the Sunnah and acting upon it. You can do tawassul based on that. But the haraam one is if the tawassul is made like saying,"Oh Allah, please accept my dua by virtue of Prophet Muhammad" instead of saying,"Oh Allah, accept my dua by virtue of the Sunnah of the Prophet" etc.
So, obviously there's ijma on the permissible form of tawassul. Even the shia and tons fo other deviated sects do that.
That's a weird condition to attach since we have the hadith of the blind man, where a person asks the Prophet PBUH to pray for him but the Prophet PBUH instructs him specifically to seek his intercession in salah.
That was before the Prophet died. I repeat, I'm asking for tawassul's evidence after the Prohpet died. It's not a weird condition I attached. In fact, our entire debate is based on this. All salafi schoalrs also agree that it's permissible to do Tawassul of Prophets when he was alive literally on two feet. But, DID the sahaba ever do tawassul of the Prophet after he died? Show me your evidence.
That Salafis love to cite Ibn Taymiyah but cannot find scholars who would agree with Ibn Taymiyah on a whole lot of issues?
That IS a lie. If you insist you're being truthful, then show me evidence of which of Ibn Taymiyyah's view was promoted by salafi scholars that were not voiced by any other scholar.