Done with the Bird/Kobe stuff because you're utterly biased. I would like to at least try to help you understand a couple of things. I will mention Kobe/Shaq a bit below just to illustrate concepts but I'm completely done with the actual "who carried whom" argument because you devolved to the point of absurdity in it.
Bro, you've been making outrageous claims to suck Larry's dick.
Larry's a goat help defender?
Larry deserved a FMVP despite 47% TS?
Larry wasn't at blame at all when Celtics lost? Especially a series when he objectively played against an awful finals team?
What I mean is that the reality on the floor is that both an ORB and a DRB ensure that your team gets a chance to score again. If you miss a DRB, it's an ORB for the other team. Yes? Every rebound achieves exactly the same thing: your team gets a chance to score and the other team has to defend. Every missed rebound achieves the same thing: the other team gets a chance to score and your team has to defend.
But see? This is unbelievably immature way to look at it.
One) when measuring possession, you find the END of possession to calculate possession.
Two) In 30% of situations, even if the rebounder doesn't get the rebound, your team still gets the rebound.
Three) In 58% of situations, even if you don't get the rebound, your team has a great chance of getting a rebound, and in in actually? It's 89% considering even when same amount of players go for rebounds, defensive team usually gets it.. Way over 60% btw.
That's what I'm talking about. Again, I agree that ORBs are more difficult and therefore more valuable in that sense - you're stealing away a rebound that the other team had a high chance of getting, whereas with DRB you're simply securing a rebound that your team had a high chance of getting already. I acknowledge this difference. I think you significantly overvalue the difference if you think a +3 ORB advantage is more valuable than a +9 DRB advantage.
Uhm. You do realize most of Larry's were empty right? if we considering empty rebounds
Larry has +.8 defensive rebounds per game while Maxwell had + 2.3 offensive rebounds per game,
I also want to remind you of the details (as I recall them) of what we were talking about with rebound differential versus PPP. IIRC, if Shaq had shot closer to Kobe's efficiency in the clutch, it would've made a difference of about 3 total points across all of the clutch games.
This is actually false. It's kinda funny considering the TS difference between two players was actually 5% during the three peat.
So in that time, 48.5% of 65 is 31.5 rebounds. 51.5% of 65 is 33.5 rebounds. That's a difference of 2 team rebounds every single game. Each rebound buys you another shot attempt, which is worth roughly 1.1 PPP for a net differential of +2.2 points per game. And that's for every single game. We're talking about what, like 60+ playoff games (I forget the exact years we were discussing in this case)? Do you understand why I value that more than 3 total points? You severely overvalue:
LOL. This is extremely retarded method to use.
First? We don't compare the difference between 48.5 percent and 51.5 percent, we compare between 50% and 51.5 percent.
So around one rebound, when Shaq leaves, Lakers usually get one rebound less... Hm????
And like I posted in that thread? 1.5% difference in rebounding percentage was not that big of a difference between top rebounding teams at that time
Which isn't to say that those three things aren't very important. Just not nearly as important as you like to argue - you try to erase every other aspect of the game in favor of those three things.
Go home kid.
Both of them use somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 possessions offensively (as a high estimate). So over the entire game, that 0.06 PPP gap is worth about 1.8 points.
Wait, please please will me you are joking,
First, 1.8 point differential while having SAME amount of possession is pretty damn significant
Interesting fact? In your rebounding example, difference between 50% and 51.5% equals in around... 1.1 PPP, and if we assume 100 possessions were used, extremely high estimate btw , the difference between Shaq's rebounding influence and the Team's rebounding influence is less than 1.1 net points, Much much lower 1.8 points.
In this scenario, I would like to tell you the difference was actually .7 PPP, (in terms of TS), but it's fine.
So even if Kobe scored that much more efficiently than Shaq over the course of the entire game it still wouldn't be as impactful for the team as the rebounding was. And of course, back here in reality, Shaq was actually the more efficient scorer in those playoff runs by a significant margin.
LOL.
This isn't true either?
If we are using playoffs:
Before the finals/ before Kobe was injured in 2000,
Kobe had a slightly higher TS%
In 2001 Kobe was more efficient, and in his first three rounds, Kobe was 3% more efficient.
2002, Shaq was the much more efficient player.