To all: As non-Muslims, are we supporting ISIS by saying they follow Islam well? Are we being intellectually honest?

I think there is a great deal of intellectual dishonesty occurring on both sides of most of these debates.

From the western side, there is an almost schaudenfraude phenomenon occurring, wherein this perfect storm of radicalised ignorance and savagery is playing itself out on the world stage, enabling the kind of polarised views that feel so natural (when considering an alien culture that challenges your own hegemony)and yet represent the darker side of our shared tribalism to prosper and be promoted.

From the islamic side, there appears to be a reluctance to take moral responsibility (in the same way that western culture is tasked with taking moral responsibility for british imperialism and a million other dreadful things, for example) for these actions, and any suggestion that there should be some responsibility +/- action taken by islam (as a faith) to somehow curb the tide of this trend of radicalisation is met with immediate retorts of racism and/or islamophobia.

I think there is a lot of distrust coming from the west, as there is not a great understanding of how baked in the ideas of caliphate and infidel slaughter are to the everyday islamic faith, and whether those ideas are seriously considered as part of the faith, or represent a "splintering" or subset of views that are broadly disregarded by the mainstream faithful. It is difficult to know as there certainly seem to be a lot of aspects to the faith that are taken extremely seriously, unlike a lot of christian faithful who follow a more "take it or leave it" belief style.

And increasingly, young people (who make up the bulk of the demographic of the people debating here) in the west are agnostic/atheistic with limited ties to organised religion, so there is a sample bias as well in these debates, as these type of people are less trusting of ANYONE claiming to be religious or to be acting on religious grounds, as to their mind the while concept of religion is ridiculous, and people who are religious are not to be trusted due to their ridiculous beliefs.

And then you have the overlay of the popular media who distort reality to create narratives that promote various political/ideological viewpoints.

So it's kind of a complex mess of issues. Somewhere in the middle of all of that lies the truth, and outside of it lie a lot of very confused and hurt people on both sides.

/r/DebateReligion Thread