A network engineers perspective on the whole dedicated servers debate.

To me it seems to be just one giant straw-man argument that amounts to "Bungie can't" . It's not that they can't, it's that they won't - because there isn't enough incentive. The frustration and suffering we go through in Crucible means nothing to them as long as we keep logging in.

I never said Bungie can't, I said they won't. I agree with your statement, though I believe the interference comes more from Activision than Bungie themselves.

Proper competitive PvP gameplay requires dedicated servers.

Crucible isn't competitive on the level of other competitive PvP games. Many games that have dedicated servers are built with a PvP model in mind first and foremost, with a story tacked on for those who want a PvE experience, Destiny isn't like this, it was the reverse, PvP wasn't a core focus, it was a mode added to a Story experience. Crucible wasn't designed to be competitive, it was designed to be fun, competitive came later in Trials, and now Bungie have a whole new mess, that is the serious dedicated PvP players who expect better.

the reason people hate the P2P gameplay in Destiny is because it gives cheaters a huge advantage that simply would not exist on dedicated servers.

And these can be fixed without needing dedicated servers, while keeping the benefits of the P2P model. The only network manipulation that can be done with Destiny is packet loss, whether this is from lagswitching or network congestion is irrelevant, the game simply doesn't have an algorithm for dealing with it, and this is the problem. Would dedicated servers solve it? Not completely, yes it would help, but for the investment, the return isn't there, new copies of the game wouldn't be sold just because Destiny now has dedicated servers, and this needs to be considered in any discussion, especially where a publisher (Activision) is involved.

Invulnerability

Target player ingress packet loss (no kill ack).

People warping around the map and shooting you in the face/back before you ever saw them.

Target player egress packet loss (telemetry inconsistencies).

DDoS / disconnect tactics in Trials of Osiris

Yes, with a dedicated server they can't see your IP, hence they can't directly DDoS you, this point is valid.

Your bullets/supers/abilities not doing damage to somebody until way after they've killed you.

Latency will always be a problem, even with dedicated servers, especially when coupled to packet loss, just hope you're close to the dedicated server farm or you're gonna have a bad time.

And as for your last three bullets:

  1. So what's the solution? Regionally located dedicated servers around the world will cost a fortune, at the moment Bungie's server infrastructure consists of Las Vegas, that's it.

  2. As an Australian, when I play solo, I play mostly with other Australians and New Zealanders, with the occasional Japanese player. I rarely get matched with US players, and mostly our connections are quite favourable with the rare red bar from foreign players. Perhaps the number of congested players is less where I am? I don't know. When I fireteam with people in the UK/US that's when I begin to redbar (if the leader is UK) on other peoples systems. If I am fireteam leader then the others will redbar as I get matched with Aussies. I'm saying "in my experience" ...

  3. Dedicated servers won't eliminate the problem of people with crap connections, moving hit detection code to dedicated servers will certainly help those players with lower latency to the servers and low packet loss, if you're a player at a ping disadvantage, then you're going to have a bad time. Inevitably arguments will arise of "Why are the servers in New York when I'm in Los Angeles, I demand servers in Los Angeles".

Dedicated servers are two factor exercise, with one common element, cost. The cost to redesign the code, and the cost to operate the servers. Those are costs that Activision (and probably Bungie) don't feel can be justified by the relatively small Crucible playerbase (as cruel as that statement sounds).

Only /u/bungieuserresearch knows accurate player statistics for PvE vs PvP, and I dare say those figures will be closely guarded, and until PvP becomes the "core" game for Destiny, I doubt there will be any significant investment, either in infrastructure, or code design to improve things.

"Fuck the whole Destiny 2 statement, it's an abortion because people don't get it".

/r/DestinyTheGame Thread Parent